organic experiments

[woelen]

ivew found some oxalic acid, which is prertty strong for an organic acid. i was wondering if i could make some other oxalate or somekind of other thing that wouldnt be an oxalate anymore, or a ester, or someting- something, that i could test to make sure i got or if i coukd use it for sometin. any thoughts?

Oxalate forms beautiful complexes with iron and chromium. Mix a solution of oxalic acid with a solution of ferric chloride or ferric sulfate and then add some sodium hydroxide.

You'll get a nice green complex, trisoxalato ferrate (III), [Fe(C2O4)3](3-). The color of the complex is shown here in the form of its ammonium salt:

 

http://81.207.88.128/science/chem/compounds/ferric_amm_oxalate.html

 

With your acid and a ferric salt, you can make this complex yourself. You can even isolate the potassium salt of this, because that is only sparingly soluble.

 

If you do the same with a ferrous salt, then you get a deep yellow complex, bisoxalato ferrate (II), [Fe(C2O4)2](2-).

 

A similar experiment you can do with chromium. Add some oxalic acid to a solution of potassium dichromate and also add a small amount of dilute hydrochloric acid or sulphuric acid. Then slightly heat. The liquid will turn deep purple. This is an oxalato complex of Cr(3+). I do not know its precise formula though.

[akcapr]

in teresting, ill try that. do u know what the reaction is for the first part?

[ThermiteMan]

H2SO4 is really hard to find in new york without a ton of buffers in it.

 

 

Yea, i agree. the only one i have found is in bulk order with the companies name of Rooto. And as far as i know they dont sell individual bottles to the public because of health risks.

 

 

And Esterification is a fun thing to do. My chem class was supposed to do Ethyl Ethanoate (smell of banana) but we ran out of time in the year.

Dr. I rules ( <----Chem Teacher)

 

By the way. Ethyl Ehanoate = Ethanol + acetic acid + a little bit of a mineral acid. that will make smell of banana when it is heated to a certain temp. ... btw im sure glacial acetic acid will work better. thats in response for mendelejevs question earlier.

[H2SO4]

go to the auto parts store and ask for battery acid.

[ThermiteMan]

like that wouldnt look suspicious lol....

 

16 year old kid " you got any battery acid?" lol

[Yggdrasil]

So, im wondering, how do insects and plants go about producing these esters?

 

Organisms use enzymes to catalyze esterifications. Enzyme catalysis allows them to carry out the reactions out at low temperatures and physiological pH rather than at high tempreratures and low pH.

 

 

Regarding organic acids: theoretically, salicylic acid should be easy produce from aspirin (acetlysalicylic acid). If you grind up comercial aspirin, you should be able to extract the asprin in a suitable organic solvent (isopropanol may work) or base-treated water. The aspirin can be converted to salicylic acid by heating in a strong solution of aqueous base (e.g. NaOH). This will give a mixture of salicylic acid and acetic acid (vinegar). The salicylic acid can be purified by cooling the reaction mixture and adding a cold solution of a weak inorganic acid (e.g. dilute (~5%) HCl or dilute phosphoric acid). The salicylic acid should precipiate (if not, try adding salt to the mixture).

 

The salicylic acid can then be used for an esterification. For example, if methanol and salicylic acid are esterified, they produce methyl salicylate (oil of wintergreen). Since aspirin is an organic acid and is very similar to salicylic acid, a wintergreen-smelling ester could possibly be produced just by esterifying methanol and aspirin.

 

Note: I have not tried any of these reactions, so I don't know for sure if they will work. This is just here for anyone who would like to give it a shot.

[akcapr]

interesting. i may try it in the future. im really interested in producing fruit-smelling compounds. thats out of my reach for the while however.

[ThermiteMan]

Yggdrasil thanks for the Salicylic Acid Production Info. It just so happens i was searching for that because i wanted to make Methyl Salicylate (A.K.A Oil Of Wintergreen)

Mmmmmmm Wintergreen smells really good. Too bad i couldnt drink it.... lol j/k

 

 

I made Isopropyl Ethanoate (Smell of Rum plus some fruit smells mixed).

 

The only thing you have to watch out with the Acetic is it smells while its starting to heat. i Remember when LatentHeat and i did it and his mom walked in and gave us one of those looks.

[latentheat]

Regarding organic acids: theoretically, salicylic acid should be easy produce from aspirin (acetlysalicylic acid). If you grind up comercial aspirin, you should be able to extract the asprin in a suitable organic solvent (isopropanol may work) or base-treated water. The aspirin can be converted to salicylic acid by heating in a strong solution of aqueous base (e.g. NaOH). This will give a mixture of salicylic acid and acetic acid (vinegar). The salicylic acid can be purified by cooling the reaction mixture and adding a cold solution of a weak inorganic acid (e.g. dilute (~5%) HCl or dilute phosphoric acid). The salicylic acid should precipiate (if not, try adding salt to the mixture)

 

This worked perfectly.

 

I extracted acetylsalicylic acid from Bayer aspirin with acetone, and it worked. Then, I prepared a strong solution of sodium hydroxide and dissolved the acetylsalicylic acid in it. I heated it to a slight boil and let it do that for a minute.

 

Upon removing it from the heat, I smelled vinegar strongly. I cooled the solution and then added dilute HCl cooled with ice cubes. The salicylic acid instantly precipitated.

 

After filtering, the liquid solution smelled strongly of vinegar.

 

I'm not going to try any esters with it until ThermiteMan is at my house again.

[ThermiteMan]

This worked perfectly.

 

I extracted acetylsalicylic acid from Bayer aspirin with acetone' date=' and it worked. Then, I prepared a strong solution of sodium hydroxide and dissolved the acetylsalicylic acid in it. I heated it to a slight boil and let it do that for a minute.

 

Upon removing it from the heat, I smelled vinegar strongly. I cooled the solution and then added dilute HCl cooled with ice cubes. The salicylic acid instantly precipitated.

 

After filtering, the liquid solution smelled strongly of vinegar.

 

I'm not going to try any esters with it until ThermiteMan is at my house again.[/quote']

My Acetone i might add.....lol. Its pretty sad we used a hair dryer to evaporate acetone. But anyway: Hopefully i can get over there over the weekend. im going to try and look for Methanol but for now we'll have to make Ethyl Salicylate ( Which is just a minty smell in general) . Make another batch of Salicylic Acid so we can make Methyl Salicylate when i get the Methanol from either Aubochans or Homedepot/Lowes/Primavera Hardware in Vails Gate.

 

This experiment is fun if you want to amuse you small relatives. so is Esterification. But they'll get amused by a solid "appearing out of a clear liquid"....

You know little kids. They see a quarter and get amused