Ways to keep Carbonated drinks from going "flat"??

[427cobra]

Hi

 

I am new on this forum. For my science fair, I am considering devising ways to keep carbonated, bottled (soft drinks) from going "flat", or, basically losing the bubbles.

 

So, for my question. Do you guys have any ideas, or things that I can do?? It can be anything, but preferably not too complicated, and possibly somthing I can engineer or build.

 

I look forward to hearing your Ideas!!!

[Crash]

keep it closed

[H2SO4]

keep it closed

 

Funny, crash.

 

About the carbonated thing...

 

 

iM NOT SURE THATS POSSIBLE WITHOUT MAKING THE DRINK HAZARDOUS TO HIMAN CONCUMPTION. i HATE CAPS lock.

[427cobra]

You know what I hate?? SMART ALECS!!! Just kidding. I dont want to change the ingredients or contents of the drink, just make something (some sort of attatchment) that fits onto the bottle to stop it losing the bubbles!!!

[H2SO4]

Well, dont they make those things you screw onto bottles that you pump to keep the pressure up so it doesnt gradulaly go flat. I dont imagine this would work though.

[YT2095]

I`ve heard that leaving a metal spoon in a carbonated drink slows down the going "Flat" process, however this could entirely be a myth as I`ve not tested it.

 

keeping it in the fridge would be a more reasonable method and obviously with the lid tightly on.

[BenSon]

We did this AGES ago in chem and I'll see if i can remeber it.

The CO2 is in equilibrium with dissolved carbonic acid. You want to increase the pressure as the equilbrium will shift to oppose the change and dissolve more gas. The dissolving process is (if memory serves) exothermic so once again if you lower the temperature then it will resist the change and dissolve more gas. So keep it cold and pressurised, thats your best bet.

 

~Scott

[akcapr]

keeping it cold will definatel keep it from losing carbonation, hence why pop is usually stored cold. also i heard adding milk to pop keeps it from fizzing (or is it the other way around?). as for an attachment you could make one that increases pressure in the bottle which will keep more co2 dissolved.

[Tommio]

I thought it was stored cold because noone likes warm fizzy drinks!

 

Sorry - nothing valuble to contribute, but the consencious seems to go for pressure and BenSon's science

[H2SO4]

keeping it cold will definatel keep it from losing carbonation, hence why pop is usually stored cold. also i heard adding milk to pop keeps it from fizzing (or is it the other way around?). as for an attachment you could make one that increases pressure in the bottle which will keep more co2 dissolved.

 

 

 

I already mentioned an attachment thing that they already made. Um, tommlo, why does your ranking just say "registered user"?

[Crodley]

Hmmmm just curious, if getting the drink colder slows down the process what happens if it gets frozen? Does it reatin it's "fizzyness" fully when thawed? If I recall right when I've drank pop (yes, "pop" is a midwest thing, heh so "soda" if you're not from here) that was frozen once it tasted different, though that could be just my mind playing tricks on me.

Crodley

[Lance]

Try pressurizing it with a CO2 cannister.

[BenSon]

Hmmmm just curious, if getting the drink colder slows down the process what happens if it gets frozen? Does it reatin it's "fizzyness" fully when thawed? If I recall right when I've drank pop (yes, "pop" is a midwest thing, heh so "soda" if you're not from here) that was frozen once it tasted different, though that could be just my mind playing tricks on me.

Crodley

Well what I was talking about before in post #7 is only in a closed system. If the cola was left to freeze without being contained then the CO2 would escape and once the temperature normalised it would not be able to redissolve it. However if the system is kept closed then once to temperature pressure ect was returned to normal then the cola should be the same. As for taste well I have no idea but if I had to put money on it I'd bet it was just your mind playing tricks on you or it had still not returned to equilbrium.

 

~Scott

[zyncod]

Put some dry ice in there. That's what I do with sodas that I leave in the fridge at the lab that have gone flat, given that I have access to lots of dry ice. It gets them ice cold and fizzy. Just don't close the cap (or it will explode) or drink it until the dry ice has melted (or you'll freeze your larynx/esophagus).

[Yumeji]

Seltzer bottle would do the trick--mainly it would just recarbonate it though, not preseve the carbon that was initially there to begin with.

[427cobra]

So what your saying is, the cola won’t lose its "fizzyness" or carbonation, when frozen, but the freezing process affects the TASTE but nothing else???

 

Perhaps I should scrap the whole "inventing a gadeget" idea, and see if freezing/keeping it cool works. Also the question should have been, How do you keep carboanted drinks from going "flat" when OPENED?? (I forgot the "when opened" part).

 

Just so you guys know, I am only 14 so don't get too complicated, OK??!!

 

We have been learning all about particles and matter in class, so would I be right in saying, that when the particles (The CO2 or "bubble" particles) are chilled/ frozen, they lose energy (and when frozen, cannot move freely) so that’s why they don't escape as quickly or when frozen they don't escape at all???

 

Am I correct???

 

Also, can you get a device that can measure the amount of gas in a liquid???

 

And if the cola lost the fizz could you "re-fizz" it by pressurizing it with CO2 (or basically adding in some more CO2???

 

Cos, there is a stage (during manufacturing??) when the cola is not carbonated, right??? So when the cola loses its carbonation (is that actually a real word??!!) couldn't you just use the same process, and re-carbonate it???

 

Finally, BenSon, when you say a "closed system"(post 13 on this thread), do you mean, if the bottle was not opened???

 

Sorry if I sound dumb, and if I have gone on for ages!!!!

[emcelhannon]

Does the surface area against the air in the bottle affect things?

[CaptainPanic]

You just have to pump CO2 into the top of the bottle.

 

If you leave the bottle closed, CO2 in the liquid is going to reach equilibrium with the gas inside the bottle. So, whatever you do, you will always lose some CO2.

 

The only way to prevent that, is to have CO2 already in the gas phase (the little we have in our air is not enough).

[tomgwyther]

Simple, squeeze the bottle.

 

 

Carbonated drinks stay carbonated because there is a layer of Co2 in the bottle, Between the liquid surface and the bottle cap, the same applies to beer kegs.

In the case of the beer keg, we inject a mixture of 30% Co2 and 70% nitrogen into the keg (Beer naturally produces Co2 but this process helps a lot.

 

In the absence of a 70:30 gassing system, try this.

Pour your drink, then squeeze the bottle so the liquid is nearly at the bottle neck and the air is squeezed out, then screw the cap on tight. it has the same effect.

 

(Doesn't work too well when the bottle is nearly empty)

[rogerxd45]

Well, dont they make those things you screw onto bottles that you pump to keep the pressure up so it doesnt gradulaly go flat. I dont imagine this would work though.

 

it helps since every time you open it and reclose it the soda has to build up pressure again untill it reaches equilibrium.

 

by building up the pressure first prevents the soda from doing it by itself.

 

but it will still go flat after a while

[tomgwyther]

Those pump things are used to remove air from bottles, usually wine bottles. If the air is removed, the wine cant 'breath' and so keeps fresher for longer.

Doing this to a soda bottle would probably remove the precious Co2.

if you go to a good brew shop, they'll sell you a pressure bottle to which you can attach a small screw-in Co2 canister to the cap.

The cheaper, squeezy bottle approach has always worked for me.

[emcelhannon]

Simple, squeeze the bottle.

 

 

Carbonated drinks stay carbonated because there is a layer of Co2 in the bottle, Between the liquid surface and the bottle cap, the same applies to beer kegs.

In the case of the beer keg, we inject a mixture of 30% Co2 and 70% nitrogen into the keg (Beer naturally produces Co2 but this process helps a lot.

 

In the absence of a 70:30 gassing system, try this.

Pour your drink, then squeeze the bottle so the liquid is nearly at the bottle neck and the air is squeezed out, then screw the cap on tight. it has the same effect.

 

(Doesn't work too well when the bottle is nearly empty)

 

This is the tip I was waiting to see come up. It's never sounded right, because you are reducing the pressure in the bottle, and it's nagged at me.

 

I must confess that I still don't understand why ALL the Co2 doesn't errupt the instant the bottle is opened.

 

Questions: Does reducing the air/lowering the pressure preserve carbonation, or

Does increasing the air and pressure preserve carbonation?

What keeps it from going flat instantly?

[tomgwyther]

As far as I'm aware, the pressure stays about the same. if anything it increases. you can squeeze the air out, put the lid on, then shake the bottle so as it fizzes up and returns to its original shape. Leave it for a few days and it'll still be fizzy drink inside.

I don't know the exact science behind why exactly it goes flat, I just know that if you have either pure Co2 or a mix of Co2 and nitrogen as the only gas in the container, your drink will stay fizzy.

Squeezing the 'atmospheric gas' - as it were - out of the bottle means the Co2 wont evaporate into it. Any gas which does bubble out of the drink will only reinforce the necessary layer of Co2 in the bottle, and puff the bottle out a bit.

it must have something to do with removing the oxygen.

Edited February 15, 2010 by tomgwyther

[emcelhannon]

I'll try it, but I still can't wrap my mind around how it works. Does the carbon di turn to carbon tri or take on argon, or what? The whole reason it stays locked up in liquid when it's way over its subliming temp is crazy, and I want to know why.

thanks

By the way, how long can a bottle of wine last when using one of those pumps?

[tomgwyther]

By the way, how long can a bottle of wine last when using one of those pumps?

 

Depends on the wine really, and how much air you can suck from the bottle.

A good Rioja or Chianti wont last more than a day IMO. a cheaper wine will last longer. white wine lasts longer still, maybe a week.

Again, I'm not sure of the exact science behind this, I just know that it works.

 

As for the fizzy drink, I do know that the Co2 is dissolved into the liquid.

You can take a sealed container, half fill it with still water and half with Co2 gas. shake it vigorously and you'll end up with very slightly fizzy water. the more pressure there is, the more fizz it will have.

 

here's a video I found explaining how the carbonation process works. the system used is very similar to the system I worked with for many years as a bar manager

 

http://science.discovery.com/videos/deconstructed-how-soda-fountains-work.html

Edited February 17, 2010 by tomgwyther