Democracy, Theocracy, Moral Values and Politics

[-Demosthenes-]

 

Is there no virtue among us? If there be not' date=' we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people is a chimerical idea.

[/quote']

We've all heard that "morality cannot be legislated," and things like that, but why not? Isn't that what laws are? It someone is elected than can he/she not push for legislation that is in accordance to his values? If you don't like them then don't vote for him, the majority always wins. That's why we have a constitution, to protect the minority and others.

I mean if you think that abortion or gay marriage is wrong then what is wrong with pushing legislation for it? If the public doesn't like it, they shouldn't vote for him. It's democracy, we vote for what we want. Isn't it hypocritical to say otherwise?

 

Now everyone thinks that these are Christian values, so what? Does that mean that they are some how evil? Blah, blah, morals are all good as long as they aren't Christian, but then they aren't cool. Do you have the urge to be rebellious and original too much?

Even being stodgily unfashionable is a "fashion statement," and the vanity of the man who will never wear anything fashionable in public, out of fear of being thought vain, is vanity just the same.

It is also a Christian value to refrain from stealing, or murdering, are these evil as well?

[Pangloss]

One of the more amusing things about "legislating morality" discussions is the idea that it's something only conservatives do.

 

Examples of "legislated morality":

- Welfare

- Unemployment compensation

- Affirmative action

- Minimum wage

- Hate crimes laws

- Marriage for gays and lesbians

 

Of course in many cases the opposite of the above positions are also examples of morality, such as with the last point in particular. But the point is that while some will view many of the above as "fairness" issues, others will not. The difference between those two groups of people is... drum roll please... morality.

[Skye]

We've all heard that "morality cannot be legislated," and things like that, but why not?

I think it is saying that you can't make people act morally by passing laws that punish immoral behaviour. It acts as a deterrent, but not as a determinant.

[In My Memory]

Demosthenes,

 

It is also a Christian value to refrain from stealing, or murdering, are these evil as well?

Almost every single culture on the planet has condemned stealing and murdering, and its been condemned long before Christianity appeared in the first place.

 

Also, nobody despises certain moral values just because those values are held by a certain religion. People despise certain moral values because those values are simply unpractical, have negative consequences, or are just plain silly.

Religion gets mixed up with silly moral values because politicians, in an attempt to take control of the moral highground, use the authority of God to defend their actions. What you get is something like "I believe abortion is wrong, and God agrees with me", "I believe women shouldnt wear pants, and God agrees with me", "I believe Africans are the rightful property of white men, and God agrees with me".

 

Do you know what happens when someone calls a politician on their silly moral values? The politician whines that he is being persecuted in an anti-Christian society.

 

(There is a nice quote by Ghandi that goes something along the lines of "I like your Christ, but I dont like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ".)

[husmusen]

Almost every single culture on the planet has condemned stealing and murdering.

 

It would be more correct to say that they condem certain forms of it,

and condone other forms. Slavery, for example, was once condoned and

supported, and those good and decent people who opposed it were

villified just as the decent people who oppose todays evils.

 

For example the detention of a young baby, potentially for life

(although politically unlikely), for the crime of being born.

(To an illegal immigrant making the child stateless).

 

Do you know what happens when someone calls a politician on their silly moral values? The politician whines that he is being persecuted in an anti-Christian society.

 

Christian values seem rediculous when preached by people who do not

abide by them, when preached by people who live by them, they

no longer seem rediculous but very beautiful.

 

As for Ghandi, he saw hypocrisy and he called them on it, good on him.

 

Cheers.

[revprez]

We've all heard that "morality cannot be legislated," and things like that, but why not? Isn't that what laws are?

 

It's a remarkably stupid statement from people who should no better. Mala in se literally means "bad in and of themselves." Mala prohibita means "wrong because society agrees its wrong." These are fundamentaly moral assertions and all law in all functioning states draws on these claims.

 

It someone is elected than can he/she not push for legislation that is in accordance to his values? If you don't like them then don't vote for him, the majority always wins. That's why we have a constitution, to protect the minority and others.

 

And the means to influence how that Constitution is interpreted or if necessary amended. The minority's view that their positions are politically and legally inviolable is factually wrong.

 

Rev Prez