imatfaal Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Strange said: I think you are confusing the Quakers with the Amish. Unless US Quakers are very different from Europe. I agree that creationists are, potentially, a danger. But by themselves they have no real power. It is when politicians collude with them that there is a real risk. In fact, there are probably as many examples of political interference with science as religious. Lysenkoism, for example. 2 "creationists are, potentially, a danger. But by themselves they have no real power. It is when politicians collude with them OR HOLD THOSE VIEWS THEMSELVES that there is a real risk" Added an important (to me at least) to your latest. And surely the biggest religious belief causing problems for the advancement of science is to be found within climate change. A large part of the well-heeled and well-organized disruption of scientific work in this area is caused, at its root, by a belief in a world created by god for humans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Oh, OK. Amish. TY Edited July 26, 2017 by EdEarl TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 21 hours ago, Prometheus said: A word isn't necessarily exactly the same as any of its synonyms: else why would the English language have such a diverse pool of words to choose from. I agree that faith and trust both require us to believe something. The subtlety here is that faith compels us to believe something regardless of the evidence. Science asks us to believe something so long as it accords with the evidence. When you translate 'faith' into Dutch, you get 'vertrouwen' (=trust) or 'geloof' (=belief). There is no real Dutch word for 'faith'. That's probably because there is less religion in the Netherlands and Belgium...there is no use for such a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, Itoero said: When you translate 'faith' into Dutch, you get 'vertrouwen' (=trust) or 'geloof' (=belief). There is no real Dutch word for 'faith'. That's probably because there is less religion in the Netherlands and Belgium...there is no use for such a word. Interesting, but when the language evolved, the area was pretty much as religious as anywhere else. The 3 words have similar meanings in English, and the distinction's not always obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 21 hours ago, Itoero said: When you translate 'faith' into Dutch, you get 'vertrouwen' (=trust) or 'geloof' (=belief). There is no real Dutch word for 'faith'. That's probably because there is less religion in the Netherlands and Belgium...there is no use for such a word. Overall, there simply are a lot less words in Dutch than in English. English has more choice for nuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 English may have more words, but the Dutch may have the largest dictionary in the world. Quote http://www.worldslargestdictionary.com/ The world’s largest monolingual dictionary It is believed that the monolingual Dutch dictionary Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal is the largest monolingual dictionary available. It took 134 years to finish, starting in 1864 and finishing only in 1998. Initially published in 40 volumes, it is now available online at http://gtb.inl.nl/ The dictionary contains hundreds of thousands of headwords and over a million quotes from sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Bender said: Overall, there simply are a lot less words in Dutch than in English. English has more choice for nuance. True 'faith' is 'foi' in French, 'fe' in Spanish and 'fede' in Italian..they stem from the Latin 'fidem'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Like 'Fidelity' and 'Fidel Castro' - I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimbo36 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 bible is a wank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypervalent_iodine Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 52 minutes ago, bimbo36 said: bible is a wank ! Moderator Note You are entitled to your opinion, but it would be preferred if you could keep it constructive and actually contribute to discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 So, what have we learned? That Creationists attempt to affect education about science. Other religious forces attempt to affect the political decisions made on the basis of climate science. There seems little other evidence of religions effect of science. The OP seems to have abandoned his claims about religion and science. Presumably because they are unsupportable and he was just having a little rant about a theory he doesn't like. Perhaps it is time to close this thread now it has degenerate into silly comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eise Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 26/07/2017 at 3:20 PM, Itoero said: When you translate 'faith' into Dutch, you get 'vertrouwen' (=trust) or 'geloof' (=belief). There is no real Dutch word for 'faith'. That's probably because there is less religion in the Netherlands and Belgium...there is no use for such a word. When you translate the word 'godsdienst' you get 'religion'. Obviously there is more 'godsdienst' in the Netherlands and Belgium. "Languages differ by differentiating differently" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Eise said: When you translate the word 'godsdienst' you get 'religion'. Obviously there is more 'godsdienst' in the Netherlands and Belgium. "Languages differ by differentiating differently" I used the word 'probably', it was just an idea. And 'godsdienst' is not always the same as 'religie'. 'religie' is the real translation from 'religion'. edit: a real translation of 'godsdienst' is 'god service' or 'service of god' Edited July 28, 2017 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimbo36 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, hypervalent_iodine said: ! Moderator Note You are entitled to your opinion, but it would be preferred if you could keep it constructive and actually contribute to discussion. I am sorry , most of you are from christian majority nations . When someone brings up a topic about science and religion , its almost like bible and science .What is in bible that is about science , almost nothing Edited July 28, 2017 by bimbo36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Itoero said: I used the word 'probably', it was just an idea. And 'godsdienst' is not always the same as 'religie'. 'religie' is the real translation from 'religion'. edit: a real translation of 'godsdienst' is 'god service' or 'service of god' The edit is a literal translation, not how the word is actually used. There is definitely some nuance in the translation, but I'm not sure there is a consensus about what that nuance is exactly as I've seen differing attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) On 7/27/2017 at 0:08 PM, Bender said: Overall, there simply are a lot less words in Dutch than in English. Nope, there are fewer. Edited July 29, 2017 by John Cuthber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 6 hours ago, John Cuthber said: Nope, there are fewer. Thank you for illustrating my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 6 hours ago, John Cuthber said: Nope, there are fewer. That "rule" was just one writer's preference that was somehow adopted by pedants as an absolute truth. Less has always been used with countables. http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003775.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area54 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, Strange said: That "rule" was just one writer's preference that was somehow adopted by pedants as an absolute truth. Less has always been used with countables. http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003775.html Nevertheless (or, if you prefer, neverthefewer) I still have to supress the gag reflex each time I hear the "rule" breached. If this makes me a pedant I shall wear the badge with pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Area54 said: Nevertheless (or, if you prefer, neverthefewer) I still have to supress the gag reflex each time I hear the "rule" breached. If this makes me a pedant I shall wear the badge with pride. It is your stylistic preference. We all have those (and sometime defend them passionately). On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with the old usage of less. Edited July 29, 2017 by Strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Steven Pinker wrote an interesting piece on the over-zealous application of this (and other) rules. Usually a valid grammatical point for one context is frivolously extended to cover all uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Bender said: Thank you for illustrating my point I'm glad someone recognised that's what I was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 13 hours ago, Bender said: The edit is a literal translation, not how the word is actually used. There is definitely some nuance in the translation, but I'm not sure there is a consensus about what that nuance is exactly as I've seen differing attempts. 'godsdienst' refers to theistic religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Handy andy said: Quantum foam being a good candidate for gravity something I am interested in. I wish you would start a thread on this so that we can (a) find out WTF you are talking about and (b) discuss it sensibly (i.e. non religiously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Handy andy said: I twisted your words to make my point. I missed nothing. at least I don't think so. Think again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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