Maths vs Belief

[Strange]

9 hours ago, cladking said:

I was referring only to actual scientists who devise or execute actual experiments of their own. 

Of course anyone who understands the nature of the experiment or how it was devised might be included. 

Then you seem to have that the wrong way round. Scientists and those with a good understanding of science understand that models are just models and are not the same as the thing being modelled. 

It is only people, like yourself, who have only a loose grasp on science gained from popular articles who don't understand how science really works.

[StringJunky]

8 minutes ago, Strange said:

Then you seem to have that the wrong way round. Scientists and those with a good understanding of science understand that models are just models and are not the same as the thing being modelled. 

It's the same as saying a map is not the territory.

[cladking]

4 hours ago, StringJunky said:

It's the same as saying a map is not the territory.

The problem is people live on their maps and are able to see only what can be seen from any point on them and don't even realize it. 

Unless you understand metaphysics then you can't even step back and see your map. 

[Strange]

1 minute ago, cladking said:

The problem is people live on their maps and are able to see only what can be seen from any point on them and don't even realize it. 

Who are those people? You keep making this claim, but there is no evidence it is true. 

[cladking]

4 hours ago, studiot said:

Careful what you assume.

Some of us (myself included) have published research papers to our names.

You're taking the comment out of context.

"We mistake the knowledge for understanding.  We isolate bits and parts of nature for study and then believe we understand all of nature; all of reality."

...was a response to;

Quote

 Models do impart understanding - that is they do unless you are using some mad definition - which is quite possible.  They might not impart understanding of some platonic underlying schema - but then nothing does. 

I was essentially suggesting that model formation is a means to format data rather than to understand the underlying principles. 

Even many good scientists who devise important experiment typically understand their reality in terms of models.  This is simply the way things are.  It doesn't have to be this way, it merely is. 

[cladking]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

Who are those people? You keep making this claim, but there is no evidence it is true. 

It's almost all of us. 

We each see the world in terms of our beliefs.  Scientific beliefs are in terms of models.