How do I come to terms with death?

[Damateur]

22 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

How a person dies shouldn't define their life that went before. It is rarely a fairy-tale ending. ...

   I didn't say or imply either of those things. jcme11 expressed some concern about abrupt endings so I pointed out that abrupt endings are not the worst thing to happen. That's all. Nothing more.

 

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, Damateur said:

   I didn't say or imply either of those things. jcme11 expressed some concern about abrupt endings so I pointed out that abrupt endings are not the worst thing to happen. That's all. Nothing more.

 

i was adding to what you said, not contradicting.

[Area54]

On 30/07/2017 at 3:07 AM, jcme11 said:

 The part I am struggling with is how to come to terms with this idea of what death is.

This is a problem that eventually solves itself.

[Ten oz]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:07 PM, jcme11 said:

I believe that life is a long chain of chemical reactions. Therefore, when we die, the electrical impulses in our brains (and any other reactions occurring in our bodies) are converted into other forms of energy and are recycled back into the universe. I think death is something like a dreamless sleep. We close our eyes, everything goes black, and we simply cease to exist. I know it sounds depressing, but it's the scenario that makes the most logical sense to me. The part I am struggling with is how to come to terms with this idea of what death is. It upsets me to think about it because it makes me feel like we're living out our lives just to be forgotten. I know I will eventually lose everyone I care about to death, I just wish it wasn't such an abrupt and definite end. I don't want my theory to be the truth, but it's what I believe and I want to find a way to be okay with this.

In addition to coping methods and mind sets, I would love to discuss different theories and approaches.

Thanks,

x

Life, all life, seems to always be trying to live. Coping with death doesn't seem to be a useful evolutionary trait. Rather attemptinng to live on and on is. Death doesn't require your best efforts life does.

 

Also, in a sense we have all already been dead. Where were you during the migration out of Africa, rise of the Roman Empire, or the fall of Incan Empire? Where you were then, during all that time is where you'll return to. No effort required, no coping needed.

[tar]

Ten oz,

I think a little of us was actually there during the migration out of Africa and during the rise of the Roman Empire.  The mitochondria in Lucy indicates we all were there, with Lucy.

A female is born with a full complement of eggs that will last throughout her fertile lifetime. One or two or more released every month after she is 12 or so.  Half the pattern that was destined to become you, that you would strive to maintain throughout your life, was existing when your mother was in your grandmother's womb.  One quarter of the pattern was existing when your grandmother was in your greatgrandmother's womb.

So while I am with you, that consciousness wise, the particular identity that is TAR, this particular pattern came into existence when my one of my father's sperm joined an egg of my mom,   half my pattern is as old as my mom would have been were she alive today, and 1/??????????...????th of me is as old as Lucy.  So that is were jcme11 was during the rise of Rome...in the belly of an ancestor female, living at the time.

Regards, TAR

Edited August 10, 2017 by tar

[dimreepr]

Only the living needs to come to terms with death; the dead or dying either don't care or have no choice. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by dimreepr

[Ten oz]

@ tar, a little of us were there when the first fish took a breath of air. However I think the OP is referring to his mind/sense of self. It is the mind where a person would have issues coping.

[tar]

Ten oz,

Well yes.  I was responding to the OPs request to talk about some other ways people look at death, and one of the ways I have formulated for myself is to consider that I am part of a continuum of human life and life on Earth.  I am just a temporary point of focus consciousness, but I can feel part of the whole chain, and consider myself a step in the ladder that future humans will have used to climb to where they find themselves.

Like others have mentioned in this thread, one is remembered by the people they touched in their life, and by the works they leave behind.  Grog back in whatever BC that first strapped a rock to the end of a stick was something "we" did, earlier.   It is not like we are separate from reality, from the world.  And like the OP mentioned we melt back into the constituent chemicals that make us up and are still part of the place.  But however one looks at it, metaphorically or literally or figuratively, in general or in specific, it matters much that we are here, now, alive experiencing the place.   And that we did it earlier, and we will continue to do it even after TAR is dead, means a lot to me.   It is still my universe.   There is not an existence which does not include TAR, that we have any access to, and there is not any other TAR in the entire universe.  The place is mine, and I am of and in the place. 

Some phrase this as when you die you go back into the loving embrace of Jesus, or you rejoin the "Force", or you turn to dust and blow off into the wind and water and soil and rejoin the Earth...whatever, it is the same thing.  My addition to jcme11's request for ways to look at it, ways to cope, is that it is OK and realistic to love life, and love the place, before birth, during life and after death.

Why else would we have such a thing as life insurance or make laws to protect the environment, or concern ourselves with our history. It is our place.  Always has been, is now, and will be forever.

Regards, TAR

 

We have no other universe and jcme11 has no other me.

One saying I have liked ever since I heard it was "to the whole world you are just somebody, but to somebody, you are the whole world." 

Edited August 10, 2017 by tar

[Ten oz]

@ tar, all life eventually will end. The sun will engulf the earth. Eventually the universe will end like. As a result even holding out hope that out dna will continue on has an end. Nothing about us will exist for infinity. Life is finite no matter how one sings it. 

[Raider5678]

I don't worry about death. Mainly because I'm religious.

However, there's not much you can do if you aren't religious other then to make the most of your life and enjoy it. Plus, why must you need to be remembered? You'll be dead. You won't care.

[tar]

Ten oz,

 

well yes, but as brief and fleeting as life on Earth has so far been, its been a substantial ride, with billions of victories and joyful moments along the way

We are well insulated from the end of the universe, I don't think we need to feel bad about it, 'cause it will not happen within our lifetimes or the lifetimes of our children or their children, or their children...

In other words nobody that matters will have to experience the end of the universe, so that death is nothing to worry about or come to terms with\

Regards, TAR 

Edited August 10, 2017 by tar

[Ten oz]

2 hours ago, tar said:

Ten oz,

 

well yes, but as brief and fleeting as life on Earth has so far been, its been a substantial ride, with billions of victories and joyful moments along the way

We are well insulated from the end of the universe, I don't think we need to feel bad about it, 'cause it will not happen within our lifetimes or the lifetimes of our children or their children, or their children...

In other words nobody that matters will have to experience the end of the universe, so that death is nothing to worry about or come to terms with\

Regards, TAR 

No one that "matters" experienced Lucy either. Regardless of handed along DNA one's own life and the lives of all potential carriers of genes end. The people you impact during your life will eventually be lost as will all lives effected by them and extra. There is no insulation for it. And that is okay. I have not existed before. We all have not existed before. 

[tar]

Ten oz,

So I get it, since everything dies there is no big deal dying yourself, but I think it is a tremendously big deal.  I am mixed as to whether I am OK with it or not.  And the people around you dying or you dying and leaving a wife or loved ones is a big deal.  Not so big a deal as some groknoid dying in 600 billion years on the other side of the universe.  And I think Lucy matters to me because she was my great great...grandmother.   What has happened is part of us in a way that what is to happen is not.  That is, the sun blowing in in millions of years does not matter to me or you, where the Earth producing life matters completely.

I wonder why we somehow are placated by the fact that there will be a final end...like somehow that gives us a sense of completion, when we will not be there to enjoy the finish...except of course if you eat at the restaurant at the end of universe, you can experience it multiple times...

 

Regards, TAR

Edited August 10, 2017 by tar

[Ten oz]

2 hours ago, tar said:

Ten oz,

So I get it, since everything dies there is no big deal dying yourself, but I think it is a tremendously big deal.  I am mixed as to whether I am OK with it or not.  And the people around you dying or you dying and leaving a wife or loved ones is a big deal.  Not so big a deal as some groknoid dying in 600 billion years on the other side of the universe.  And I think Lucy matters to me because she was my great great...grandmother.   What has happened is part of us in a way that what is to happen is not.  That is, the sun blowing in in millions of years does not matter to me or you, where the Earth producing life matters completely.

I wonder why we somehow are placated by the fact that there will be a final end...like somehow that gives us a sense of completion, when we will not be there to enjoy the finish...except of course if you eat at the restaurant at the end of universe, you can experience it multiple times...

 

Regards, TAR

If the sun blowing and eliminating your great great great great great great great grand children does not matter why does Lucy matter? If Lucy matters why do you justify so much B.S. via tribalism?

[tar]

Ten Oz,

I hope my great great....grandchildren, if I have any, will be smart enough to leave the area before the sun blows.

They will have a will to survive, and the technology to accomplish it.  The Sun's end does not force mankind to die.

And perhaps the end of the universe will never come.   It is possible that existence was always so, that there was always some false vacuum with something popping in and out of existence.  The overall scheme, way beyond our comprehension, and from which we are securely insulated by space and time, will NEVER be something we can completely experience. 

Perhaps this is my acceptance, my coping, that the end need not be feared, because there is no end.   You say that everything comes to an end, which is true, but you don't mention the fact that with every end is a new situation, a new beginning.  Grandma dies, but niece survives.  The Sun dies and the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria are on their way to Alpha Centuri to find an orbit to inhabit.  The universe ends in a big crunch and a new universe emerges on the other side of the point in a new universe.   Perhaps my protection from the fear of death is the knowledge that when I die, you will still be here to take care of the place, and enjoy the place...and even if every human dies, perhaps an ant  colony will carry on this life business and we, as life on Earth, will have a victory in that.

Regards, TAR

 

B.S.?   I don't think so.  We look after those we love before we sacrifice for those we don't know.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by tar

[tar]

Not that we don't sacrifice for those we don't know, but the drive, the emotional reaction, the rational decision is to protect yourself and those you include in your feeling of self.

So there is my coping with death strategy.  It is OK if I die if my daughter lives.  Or my second cousin...or my 4th cousin thrice removed, or anyone of my race, or anyone of my species, or anyone of my phylum, or anyone of my kingdom...because then a little of the pattern I spent my life protecting, will still be surviving.

Edited August 11, 2017 by tar

[Delta1212]

1 hour ago, tar said:

Not that we don't sacrifice for those we don't know, but the drive, the emotional reaction, the rational decision is to protect yourself and those you include in your feeling of self.

So there is my coping with death strategy.  It is OK if I die if my daughter lives.  Or my second cousin...or my 4th cousin thrice removed, or anyone of my race, or anyone of my species, or anyone of my phylum, or anyone of my kingdom...because then a little of the pattern I spent my life protecting, will still be surviving.

What makes that the rational decision?

[tar]

The rational mind belonging to the self in question.

[tar]

My 91 year old father in hospice has a will to live, he also does not want resources wasted to keep him alive should he fall into a situation where extraordinary measures would have to be taken for him to get sustenance and oxygen...he does not want to be kept alive if he can not manage it on his own, in order to leave some money for his wife to continue surviving, or in general the population of the area which has only limited hospital space and funds. The will to live is his emotions, his neurotransmitters, talking, his directive to not go back to the hospital for any life lengthening procedures is a rational mind decision.   His anxiety and need for anxiety reducing medicine is a result of his will to live overriding his rational decision to accept that his useful life, his ability to get up and walk around, his ability to live life, any self serving "reason" to stay alive, is over.   We still want to enjoy him 'til we can't. He can still think and talk and listen to people and enjoy food and watching the Yankees, so his life is not over.  Perhaps he will outlive us all.

Edited August 11, 2017 by tar

[Delta1212]

On 8/11/2017 at 9:26 AM, tar said:

The rational mind belonging to the self in question.

No, I mean, what makes protecting the self a rational choice?

[tar]

Delta1212,

You don't think survival is the act of protecting one's self?  Every single rational choice we make is to get ourselves food and water and shelter and comfort and  safety and love and belonging and self actualization. Or to get the same for others or to help others attain those things.  Primarily others that we love, which I define as other entities that we include in our feeling of self.   So yes, absolutely protecting the self is a rational choice.

Regards, TAR