40TH Anniversary: NASAs Longest and Farthest.

[beecee]

In the coming months NASA will celebrate 40 years since the two Voyager probes were sent aloft.             Now 40 years on, they have left the confines of our Solar System: The first man made probes ever to do this.

Each of these probes carried a "golden record" with a collection of the sights and sounds of our fragile Earth, and as a message to any potential Intelligence out there, that should happen to recover these probes. In my opinion, I doubt that any man made endeavour has ever gained such a huge amount of knowledge of our solar system and the planets and moons it contains, and inspired mankind to continue the exploration of the vastness of space, and the continued gathering of knowledge.

What were/are the achievements of these early spacecraft?                                                                          Any achievements to add to the following?

[1] First close encounters with Jupiter, Saturn, and with Voyager 2, also Uranus and Neptune.  

 [2] Discoveries of the first Volcanoes off planet Earth and the knowledge that Io is the most active body in the solar system.        

 [3]Discovery of the first atmosphere around another body of any significance, namely with Saturn's moon Titan.    

  [4]   The indication of a probable Ocean beneath the cracked, icy crust of Europa.    

 [5] Geological activity on Neptune's moon Triton.      

 [6] Confirmation of the icy structure of Saturn's rings.  

 [7] Incredible close up photos of the outer gaseous giants and their prominent moons, enabling even more data to be constructed on our solar system and its formation.    

 [8] And in my opinion, probably the most important, the confirmation, and accuracy with Newtonian gravitational mechanics, and the applied mathematics to be able to rendezvoux with the four outer planets of our system and of course the major moons of these planets.

Is there anything important I have forgotten? any errors or corrections? 

Edited August 4, 2017 by beecee

[Area54]

The record of the Voyager probes is certainly a magnificent one. Thank you for the timely reminder. Here are some corrections to and comments on your list:

1. Pioneer 10 was the first spacecraft to reach Jupiter, while Pioneer 11 also visited Jupiter ahead of the Voyagers and was the first to reach Saturn.

2. Pioneer 10 determined that Io was orbiting within a hydrogen cloud. I believe (but have to check) that this may be related to the vulcanism you mentioned.

3. Titan was known to have an atmosphere since the 1940s and suspected to have one since the early 1900s.

Also, the Pioneer craft were the first to leave the solar system (based on a definition that views the Voyagers as having left the system) although they have been overtaken by at least one of the Voyagers.

The Pioneers lacked the Golden Records of the Voyagers, but they did carry the Sagan inspired plaque.

 

[Airbrush]

When thinking about the plaques attached to the Pioneers, as well as the Voyagers, do you now think it was a good idea to let ANY ET out there know where we are?  Like it's saying "This is where we live, please come and take our ideal planet away from us."

[Area54]

2 hours ago, Airbrush said:

When thinking about the plaques attached to the Pioneers, as well as the Voyagers, do you now think it was a good idea to let ANY ET out there know where we are?  Like it's saying "This is where we live, please come and take our ideal planet away from us."

I share your concern, no matter how small the chance may be of a hostile civilisation discovering them. Paranoia may be a form of madness, but it has survival value.

On a side note, I liked the observation by Feynman who thought including recordings of Bach would "just be boasting".

[beecee]

On 8/8/2017 at 3:57 AM, Area54 said:

The record of the Voyager probes is certainly a magnificent one. Thank you for the timely reminder. Here are some corrections to and comments on your list:

1. Pioneer 10 was the first spacecraft to reach Jupiter, while Pioneer 11 also visited Jupiter ahead of the Voyagers and was the first to reach Saturn.

2. Pioneer 10 determined that Io was orbiting within a hydrogen cloud. I believe (but have to check) that this may be related to the vulcanism you mentioned.

3. Titan was known to have an atmosphere since the 1940s and suspected to have one since the early 1900s.

Also, the Pioneer craft were the first to leave the solar system (based on a definition that views the Voyagers as having left the system) although they have been overtaken by at least one of the Voyagers.

The Pioneers lacked the Golden Records of the Voyagers, but they did carry the Sagan inspired plaque.

 

Yep, thanks for those corrections. I should have been more clear. My main inference was with the  gravitational navigation to enable close encounters with all the outer planets [at least with Voyage 2] and the primary Satellites. ( Yes certainly some serendipitous aspect involved with all the planets involved being on the same side of the Sun)  I was also well aware of the Pioneer craft being the first to leave our solar system, but you have certainly enlightened my faulty memory re the Sagan plaque which I thought was with the Voyager/s. 

16 hours ago, Airbrush said:

When thinking about the plaques attached to the Pioneers, as well as the Voyagers, do you now think it was a good idea to let ANY ET out there know where we are?  Like it's saying "This is where we live, please come and take our ideal planet away from us."

 

14 hours ago, Area54 said:

I share your concern, no matter how small the chance may be of a hostile civilisation discovering them. Paranoia may be a form of madness, but it has survival value.

On a side note, I liked the observation by Feynman who thought including recordings of Bach would "just be boasting".

No one respects the skill, knowledge and tenacity of Stephen Hawking more then I. But on this issue I disagree. My reasoning being that any recovery of these craft would be by advanced civilisations, and my optimism and reason tells me that such an advanced species, should really have realized the utter futility of war and aggression, and of course, any of the desired elements or water that is abundant on Earth, is also abundant throughout the Universe.             Add that reasoning to the fact that such species would be many light years from Earth, and then its not hard to realise that time and distance are also barriers for any thought of conquest or aggression.

In essence I believe Sagan's idea and the records on Voyager/s were well worth it and if one day found by an advanced species, should prompt them to send a signal to our region of the solar system and answer a life long question for us all in that we are not alone.

 

PS: This could be the basis for a lively debate.  

Edited August 9, 2017 by beecee

[beecee]

Mission status continuing updates at....

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/mission/status/

 

 

and this relevant paper.......

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1708/1708.02315.pdf

A Galactic Cosmic Ray Electron Intensity Increase of a factor of up to 100 At Energies between 3 and 50 MeV in the Heliosheath between the Termination Shock and the Heliopause Due to Solar Modulation As Measured by Voyager 1

 

ABSTRACT:

We have derived background corrected intensities of 3-50 MeV galactic electrons observed by Voyager 1 as it passes through the heliosheath from 95 to 122 AU. The overall intensity change of the background corrected data from the inner to the outer boundary of the heliosheath is a maximum of a factor ~100 at 15 MeV. At lower energies this fractional change becomes less and the corrected electron spectra in the heliosheath becomes progressively steeper, reaching values ~ -2.5 for the spectral index just outside of the termination shock. At higher energies the spectra of electrons has an exponent changing from the negative LIS spectral index of -1.3 to values approaching zero in the heliosheath as a result of the solar modulation of the galactic electron component. The large modulation effects observed below ~100 MV are possible evidence for enhanced diffusion as part of the modulation process for electrons in the heliosheath.

[Silvestru]

Really nice thread. Regarding the plaques. Even if some intelligent life form would get in contact with them, do you really think they could decipher them and find out our exact location? I know math is the "language of the Universe" but maybe they see math differently. Any thoughts?

[Silvestru]

Added an image of Plaque as reference.

[beecee]

7 hours ago, Silvestru said:

Really nice thread. Regarding the plaques. Even if some intelligent life form would get in contact with them, do you really think they could decipher them and find out our exact location? I know math is the "language of the Universe" but maybe they see math differently. Any thoughts?

Good question. I suppose it depends on how intelligent such beings were. But irrespective, looking at it simplistically 2+2 will always equal 4.

[Silvestru]

Not if you are Stalin haha. Like I heard many times, in historical cases where a more advanced civilization got in contact with a lesser one, it didn't end so well for the lesser technologically advanced. Even modern human beings treat other humans like lab rats sometimes, wars. I can't imagine things going peaceful if we contacted a extraterrestrial civilization on a similar technological level. 

But back to the point, I really think it's a much better idea to invest the the funds there are more into exploratory satellites and less into manned missions. I think we can safely gather more information that way. Aside from the ideological and political significance I really see no benefit to just "visit" a planet by human astronauts.

Spoiler

 

[beecee]

12 hours ago, Silvestru said:

Not if you are Stalin haha. Like I heard many times, in historical cases where a more advanced civilization got in contact with a lesser one, it didn't end so well for the lesser technologically advanced. Even modern human beings treat other humans like lab rats sometimes, wars. I can't imagine things going peaceful if we contacted a extraterrestrial civilization on a similar technological level. 

But back to the point, I really think it's a much better idea to invest the the funds there are more into exploratory satellites and less into manned missions. I think we can safely gather more information that way. Aside from the ideological and political significance I really see no benefit to just "visit" a planet by human astronauts.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

While that may be true for planet Earth, perhaps some more advanced civilisation may have realized the futility of war and aggression. And who says modern humans are intelligent when compared to any possible space-faring civilisation?And like I said, what would any space-faring civilisation really need on Earth, when it can all be found throughout the universe? Then as mentioned we have the time and distance factor. Or perhaps I'm being too optimistic in this case?