Asperger's: Do You Have It & How Does it Affect Relationships?

[CaptainT]

Has anyone taken an Autism Quotient test and if so, could you point me to it?

And for those who are (self-)diagnosed with Asperger's, how has it affected your relationships (with family, friends, partners, etc)?

[DrKrettin]

I could write a whole essay on this.  Briefly, five years ago at the age of 65, after a considerable amount of research and some tests, I diagnosed myself as being on the Asperger's spectrum. If I had had this diagnosis 60 years earlier, my life would have been much easier and different in many respects.

By far the best approach is I think to read Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's syndrome which can be downloaded as an e-book. His description of aspects of Asperger's  coincided so much with various social difficulties I have had in the past, that it was a complete revelation.

By far the biggest effect it has had on my life is mentioned in the book. As a generalisation, young Asperger's men tend to be aware of an emotional immaturity and choose partners who are older and more emotionally mature because there is something comforting about it. He says this is unfortunate because in the long term, this is not the kind of partner he needs.

This is exactly what I did. It took me 25 years to realise that the relationship actually had no meaningful basis (for me) and I knew we should never have married. I'll skip over the details here. Suffice to say that an Asperger's male should seek and Asperger's female, but given an estimated 1 in 1000 males and 1 in 4000 females are in this category, the chances of meeting are small. (The figures for women are debatable, more about that later). But I did meet one, 25 years later than I should have done.

[CaptainT]

2 hours ago, DrKrettin said:

I could write a whole essay on this.  Briefly, five years ago at the age of 65, after a considerable amount of research and some tests, I diagnosed myself as being on the Asperger's spectrum. If I had had this diagnosis 60 years earlier, my life would have been much easier and different in many respects.

By far the best approach is I think to read Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's syndrome which can be downloaded as an e-book. His description of aspects of Asperger's  coincided so much with various social difficulties I have had in the past, that it was a complete revelation.

By far the biggest effect it has had on my life is mentioned in the book. As a generalisation, young Asperger's men tend to be aware of an emotional immaturity and choose partners who are older and more emotionally mature because there is something comforting about it. He says this is unfortunate because in the long term, this is not the kind of partner he needs.

This is exactly what I did. It took me 25 years to realise that the relationship actually had no meaningful basis (for me) and I knew we should never have married. I'll skip over the details here. Suffice to say that an Asperger's male should seek and Asperger's female, but given an estimated 1 in 1000 males and 1 in 4000 females are in this category, the chances of meeting are small. (The figures for women are debatable, more about that later). But I did meet one, 25 years later than I should have done.

Thank you for recommending the book, I'll definitely look into it!

Sorry you had to go through this journey on your own, but I appreciated that you shared your story.

The reason I ask is that a former partner (who is slightly older than me, and with whom I am hoping to reconcile, or at least be on friendly terms) potentially has Asperger's. It didn't occur to me until months after the relationship had ended, when a friend who has AS pointed out, that it was a possibility for my partner as well. So, I read up on AS, and realized that many of the symptoms applied to my partner.

In light of what I have learned, I would like to reconnect with my partner in a way that would not be overwhelming. 

I understand that this is who my partner is, and I cannot change my partner, but to accept his/her ways. Obviously, everyone says I should walk away (people say this even without knowing of the AS), yet I do want to try again.

Would you have any opinion on how to communicate with my partner?

Thank you.

[koti]

3 hours ago, DrKrettin said:

I could write a whole essay on this.  Briefly, five years ago at the age of 65, after a considerable amount of research and some tests, I diagnosed myself as being on the Asperger's spectrum. If I had had this diagnosis 60 years earlier, my life would have been much easier and different in many respects.

By far the best approach is I think to read Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's syndrome which can be downloaded as an e-book. His description of aspects of Asperger's  coincided so much with various social difficulties I have had in the past, that it was a complete revelation.

By far the biggest effect it has had on my life is mentioned in the book. As a generalisation, young Asperger's men tend to be aware of an emotional immaturity and choose partners who are older and more emotionally mature because there is something comforting about it. He says this is unfortunate because in the long term, this is not the kind of partner he needs.

This is exactly what I did. It took me 25 years to realise that the relationship actually had no meaningful basis (for me) and I knew we should never have married. I'll skip over the details here. Suffice to say that an Asperger's male should seek and Asperger's female, but given an estimated 1 in 1000 males and 1 in 4000 females are in this category, the chances of meeting are small. (The figures for women are debatable, more about that later). But I did meet one, 25 years later than I should have done.

DrKrettin Sir, if you take out Asperger out of your story it sounds like a regular mariage story. People don't need Asperger to realize that their relationship has no meaningful basis and get on their way after 25 years of living together. Are you sure you have it?

[DrKrettin]

1 minute ago, koti said:

DrKrettin Sir, if you take out Asperger out of your story it sounds like a regular mariage story. People don't need Asperger to realize that their relationship has no meaningful basis and get on their way after 25 years of living together. Are you sure you have it?

I am absolutely certain I qualify.  I agree that the situation is by no means confined to Aspergers, but the point I was making is that if I had been aware of my mental make-up and the implications of it at the time, I would never have married the person I did. There was nobody around at the time to give me the advice I needed. It is a sad reflection on how we live that I had spent a decade dedicating myself to studying physics, yet I had no idea of  the basics of how my own mind operated, which resulted in a really bad life decision.

[DrKrettin]

37 minutes ago, CaptainT said:

Obviously, everyone says I should walk away (people say this even without knowing of the AS), yet I do want to try again.

Would you have any opinion on how to communicate with my partner?

 

I don't know why everyone says you should walk away - having an insight into the partner's mental makeup can only improve the possibility of a meaningful relationship, and so if the urge is there, I see every reason to try to reconnect. 

I don't really understand why people generally have an aversion to a psychological inspection, and are usually very reluctant to discuss it. This is a potential problem when you want to discuss Aspergers with somebody who is unaware that they are somewhere on the spectrum. The prejudice is that it is some kind of disability, so people get defensive about it, without realising that a mild form of it can have huge positive attributes, such as the ability to focus on one topic far longer than a neurotypical person. (I am convinced that the academic environment of a university has the highest density of Aspies anywhere.) You don't mention whether the partner is aware of being an Aspie, and if not, then extreme tact is required when wanting to discuss it. On the other hand, my second wife had a life-changing revelation when we began to understand why we both had such difficulties in social situations and why we felt so isolated sometimes, just not understanding how other people functioned. 

Aspies hate being put on the spot, and always feel comfortable when they can take time and consider a social response. So I would not recommend a telephone call, but rather a carefully composed letter or email as a first step. Then see what kind of response before the next step.

[koti]

6 minutes ago, DrKrettin said:

I am absolutely certain I qualify.  I agree that the situation is by no means confined to Aspergers, but the point I was making is that if I had been aware of my mental make-up and the implications of it at the time, I would never have married the person I did. There was nobody around at the time to give me the advice I needed. It is a sad reflection on how we live that I had spent a decade dedicating myself to studying physics, yet I had no idea of  the basics of how my own mind operated, which resulted in a really bad life decision.

I just took this test and I scored 13 out of 50. Anything below 25 they say qualifies as non autistic but it's probably not a comprehensive way of finding out.
As for your "bad life decision" one could argue...if you haven't had married that person maybe you would have not spend a decade on studying physics and you'd be a dense, science ignorant now

[DrKrettin]

5 minutes ago, koti said:

I just took this test and I scored 13 out of 50. Anything below 25 they say qualifies as non autistic but it's probably not a comprehensive way of finding out.
As for your "bad life decision" one could argue...if you haven't had married that person maybe you would have not spend a decade on studying physics and you'd be a dense, science ignorant now

I just did you test and scored 36. The bad decision I referred to was not studying physics (I had already done that) but marrying the person I did marry when a little more insight into my own brain would have been far more useful to me than a decade of physics. 

[CaptainT]

20 minutes ago, DrKrettin said:

I don't know why everyone says you should walk away - having an insight into the partner's mental makeup can only improve the possibility of a meaningful relationship, and so if the urge is there, I see every reason to try to reconnect. 

I don't really understand why people generally have an aversion to a psychological inspection, and are usually very reluctant to discuss it. This is a potential problem when you want to discuss Aspergers with somebody who is unaware that they are somewhere on the spectrum. The prejudice is that it is some kind of disability, so people get defensive about it, without realising that a mild form of it can have huge positive attributes, such as the ability to focus on one topic far longer than a neurotypical person. (I am convinced that the academic environment of a university has the highest density of Aspies anywhere.) You don't mention whether the partner is aware of being an Aspie, and if not, then extreme tact is required when wanting to discuss it. On the other hand, my second wife had a life-changing revelation when we began to understand why we both had such difficulties in social situations and why we felt so isolated sometimes, just not understanding how other people functioned. 

Aspies hate being put on the spot, and always feel comfortable when they can take time and consider a social response. So I would not recommend a telephone call, but rather a carefully composed letter or email as a first step. Then see what kind of response before the next step.

It's the whole "you deserve someone better who can love you fully" type of advice. People mean well, and I appreciate that they have my best interests at heart. Maybe I am being foolish for wanting to stick with my partner, even with the understanding that I may not receive love the same way I give love. However, having very recently learned of it, I started crying because so much of the relationship now makes sense. And I hope it's not too late to reconcile, because darn it, I want to fight for my Aspie and for a future together, if only my Aspie will allow me.

I'm not sure if my partner is aware of being an Aspie, though I suspect there is marginal awareness (of which my partner could be in denial).

I've taken baby steps to reconnect, sticking only to topics that my partner can feel comfortable responding to. The current glitch is that before I discovered my partner is a potential Aspie, I tried to express my feelings, and even though it was done in a calm, non-emotional, non-turbulent manner, it probably scared my Aspie into his/her shell. I have not reached out since a few weeks ago, to give my Aspie some time and space.

I appreciate any thoughts/advice you have for moving forward!

[koti]

40 minutes ago, DrKrettin said:

I just did you test and scored 36. The bad decision I referred to was not studying physics (I had already done that) but marrying the person I did marry when a little more insight into my own brain would have been far more useful to me than a decade of physics. 

 

16 minutes ago, CaptainT said:

It's the whole "you deserve someone better who can love you fully" type of advice. People mean well, and I appreciate that they have my best interests at heart. Maybe I am being foolish for wanting to stick with my partner, even with the understanding that I may not receive love the same way I give love. However, having very recently learned of it, I started crying because so much of the relationship now makes sense. And I hope it's not too late to reconcile, because darn it, I want to fight for my Aspie and for a future together, if only my Aspie will allow me.

I'm not sure if my partner is aware of being an Aspie, though I suspect there is marginal awareness (of which my partner could be in denial).

I've taken baby steps to reconnect, sticking only to topics that my partner can feel comfortable responding to. The current glitch is that before I discovered my partner is a potential Aspie, I tried to express my feelings, and even though it was done in a calm, non-emotional, non-turbulent manner, it probably scared my Aspie into his/her shell. I have not reached out since a few weeks ago, to give my Aspie some time and space.

I appreciate any thoughts/advice you have for moving forward!

Well, just wanted you guys to know that Im not diagnosed with anything (never strived to) but my life is no walk in the park I assure you. I'd be willing to bet that my life is more of a mess than yours combined. If I started to dig deep, I'm sure I would find that I have dozens of issues on top of issues caused by serious issues which subscribe to at least a handful of serious conditions which require me to be on strong meds and  I think that majority of people out there would have it the same. I dont realy feel competent in giving advice on this and I certainly do not think that what I wrote above should subscribe to everybody...I'm just telling how it is with me.

Edited August 14, 2017 by koti

[zapatos]

7 minutes ago, koti said:

 

Well, just wanted you guys to know that Im not diagnosed with anything (never strived to) but my life is no walk in the park I assure you. I'd be willing to bet that my life is more of a mess than yours combined. If I started to dig deep, I'm sure I would find that I have dozens of issues on top of issues caused by serious issues which subscribe to at least a handful of serious conditions which require me to be on strong meds and  I think that majority of people out there would have it the same. I dont realy feel competent in giving advice on this and I certainly do not think that what I wrote above should subscribe to everybody...I'm just telling how it is with me.

No one is suggesting that only people with Asperger have issues.

[koti]

3 minutes ago, zapatos said:

No one is suggesting that only people with Asperger have issues.

How did you come up with this gold, that is a brilliant observation Zapatos.
If I started to diagnose myself, I'm sure one of the first med's I'd get prescribed would be a pill for excessive use of sarcasm, I know.

[zapatos]

1 minute ago, koti said:

How did you come up with this gold, that is a brilliant observation Zapatos.
If I started to diagnose myself, I'm sure one of the first med's I'd get prescribed would be a pill for excessive use of sarcasm, I know.

Because you keep making comments pointing out that people without Asperger have problems.

[koti]

Just now, zapatos said:

Because you keep making comments pointing out that people without Asperger have problems.

Okay Zapatos, point taken.

I guess I just wanted to make the OP feel better by pointing out that non Asperger's people have their lives screwed up pretty darn well too. My bad.

[CaptainT]

3 minutes ago, koti said:

Okay Zapatos, point taken.

I guess I just wanted to make the OP feel better by pointing out that non Asperger's people have their lives screwed up pretty darn well too. My bad.

Oh, yes. For sure. I'm considered neutrotypical, and have my own set of issues.

And even if I end up with a non-Aspie, it's not going to be perfect.

[DrKrettin]

I don't think that Aspies carry some kind of burden which is harder than a neurotypical burden, and we now have the fantastic advantage of being able to identify a consistent set of behavioral patterns and come to terms with them. Society is constructed for the benefit of neurotypical people, which is a problem for Aspies, but it is a problem one can deal with once the problem is recognised. Living with an Aspie involves being aware of the triggers for emotional meltdown and avoiding them, and arranging social contact in a manner which is bearable, all perfectly manageable tasks with a little effort.

[koti]

50 minutes ago, DrKrettin said:

I don't think that Aspies carry some kind of burden which is harder than a neurotypical burden, and we now have the fantastic advantage of being able to identify a consistent set of behavioral patterns and come to terms with them. Society is constructed for the benefit of neurotypical people, which is a problem for Aspies, but it is a problem one can deal with once the problem is recognised. Living with an Aspie involves being aware of the triggers for emotional meltdown and avoiding them, and arranging social contact in a manner which is bearable, all perfectly manageable tasks with a little effort.

What are the triggers? Theres a list of things that trigger me, longer than all the posts by cracpots on this forum

Edited August 14, 2017 by koti

[Juno]

I want to pick up a point that DrKrettin makes, that people with Aspergers should seek partners who also have Aspergers.  I don't think this has to be the case at all.  My husband and I have been together for 17 years and we have only found out this year that he is likely on the autism spectrum (he scores over 40 on the ASQ) and is now awaiting formal diagnosis (a two year waiting list where we are).  We have always worked well as a couple and are each other's best friends, but I've always been conscious that he has very few other friends - he typically doesn't like socialising and finds it hard work talking to people he doesn't know very well.  What I think he has needed is someone who is patient and non-confrontational, and doesn't make demands.  We've never been the sort of couple that tells each other what to do (it breaks my heart to hear people saying their other half "won't let them" do something) and I think it's always helped that I don't force him into social situations he doesn't want to be in etc.

I won't say it's not sometimes a lonely time, particularly when he's not feeling communicative, but I certainly wouldn't have done things any differently, and I'm fairly certain he feels the same.  

[CharonY]

I will add a few things here. Diagnosis of autism is difficult, especially on the high-functioning end of things (Asperger's has been merged into the general diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders is generally not diagnosed as a separate entity). As such online tests are highly suspicious to me. Many of the typical things for high functioning  autism are also diagnostic for people that e.g. grew up more isolated (say, immigrants). Also, as studies have shown that people well-established diagnosis in childhood  may lose the diagnosis later on when re-tested.

Self-diagnosis is even more difficult, and it is generally recommended to visit a specialist for a proper analysis.

 

Cross-posted, but I think what Juno said is very true. There is no magic automatic understanding with or without disorders. In all cases one has to figure out the various bits and pieces of your partner and be willing to accept them. And quite frankly, I can imagine that two partners with autism spectrum disorders can actually have a harder time to negotiate compromises.

Edited August 14, 2017 by CharonY

[Juno]

Incidentally, Simon Baron-Cohen's book Autism and Asperger Syndrome is a very good read for both those with ASD and those with friends/relatives with it.

[Juno]

6 minutes ago, CharonY said:

I will add a few things here. Diagnosis of autism is difficult, especially on the high-functioning end of things (Asperger's has been merged into the general diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders is generally not diagnosed as a separate entity). As such online tests are highly suspicious to me. Many of the typical things for high functioning  autism are also diagnostic for people that e.g. grew up more isolated (say, immigrants). Also, as studies have shown that people well-established diagnosis in childhood  may lose the diagnosis later on when re-tested.

Self-diagnosis is even more difficult, and it is generally recommended to visit a specialist for a proper analysis.

In the UK at least, the ASQ that can be found online is used as an indicative tool by mental health professionals.  A score of 32 or over indicates an 80% chance of being diagnosed on a formal diagnosis.  But in order to be referred for formal diagnosis you need to be experiencing difficulties in everyday life as a result.  

I think that actually the merger of autism and Aspergers diagnosis is a US thing - I believe they are still considered to be distinct in the UK.

[CharonY]

40 minutes ago, Juno said:

In the UK at least, the ASQ that can be found online is used as an indicative tool by mental health professionals.  A score of 32 or over indicates an 80% chance of being diagnosed on a formal diagnosis.  But in order to be referred for formal diagnosis you need to be experiencing difficulties in everyday life as a result.  

I think that actually the merger of autism and Aspergers diagnosis is a US thing - I believe they are still considered to be distinct in the UK.

That is likely the case. My knowledge is based on an autism researcher who is based in the US. It was also mentioned that with the online test there is a surge of people getting diagnosed and he feels that there is some level of overdiagnosing going on. Pretty much echoes the notion that it is really only relevant when there are actual difficulties in everyday life.

Edited August 14, 2017 by CharonY

[DrKrettin]

1 hour ago, koti said:

What are the triggers? Theres a list of things that trigger me, longer than all the posts by cracpots on this forum

Each Aspie has their own set of triggers, or maybe none at all. I'll give my wife as an example. Aspies usually have an irrationally acute need to organise their space, and react negatively if something is amiss. The triggers can be unimaginably trivial, but important to an Aspie. Example: we used to have a jar on the kitchen shelf containing coffee, and the jar had the label "coffee" on it. As everything else in the universe, it was designed for right-handed people, and if a right-handed person used it to make coffee, they would replace it with the label facing outwards. But I am extremely left-handed, and that meant that when I made coffee, I would replace the jar the wrong way round with the label facing the wall.  The result of this crime was spectacular. Amazing arguments. I talk in the past tense because in the end she smashed the jar against the wall in rage.

That description would be sufficient to draw the conclusion that this woman is an insane stupid bimbo, but she has a PhD and most of the time is extremely rational. She herself admits this space issue is totally irrational and her responses are inappropriately excessive emotional ones, but she seems to have no control over it. There are a few other triggers which are equally trivial and catastrophic, but I'll spare the detail. Not all Aspies are like that, but it is typical.

[DrKrettin]

1 hour ago, Juno said:

I want to pick up a point that DrKrettin makes, that people with Aspergers should seek partners who also have Aspergers.  I don't think this has to be the case at all.  

Yes, I agree that I was making a generalisation which is clearly not valid all the time. The statement was meant in a statistical sense that an Aspie is more likely to be comfortable with another one than with a neurotypical partner, and it is definitely correct in my case. 

[Juno]

18 minutes ago, CharonY said:

That is likely the case. My knowledge is based on an autism researcher who is based in the US. It was also mentioned that with the online test there is a surge of people getting diagnosed and he feels that there is some level of overdiagnosing going on. Pretty much echoes the notion that it is really only relevant when there are actual difficulties in everyday life.

True.  Although it's also possible is that what's going on with some of the increase is people like my husband, who grew up in a time when autism was barely on the radar let alone understood, and so it's only now that more information is available more people are rightly getting to the point where they can be diagnosed.