Moon/Sun and 108

[NavajoEverclear]

I was reminded of an interesting fact (?) when i was reading some psycho's claim here that Muslims knew the speed of light. I'm not puting my thing in the religious section, because the origin of my question is only a sidenote, my ultimate pondering is only scientific.

 

Now though you're going to think i'm just an idiot because i cannot refind the source and precise wording of my fact in inquiry, so i hope you can figure out what is going on.

 

A sacred Hindu number is 108. This number is aproximately how many times the moons diameter that it is from the Earth, AND how many times the Earth's diameter it is from the sun. Either that or its was how many times the sun's diameter it is from earth, or it all could have been the circumfance, or the radius. It could all be figured out by dividing or multiplying by some fraction or multiple of Pi.

 

My question is then why is this have such a relationship?

 

And now i'm going to go try to figure out what the proportions even where, but i'm not going to edit my post just cause i think my confusion is funny.

[NavajoEverclear]

actually i'm going go to sleep before i do the workings. i guess you can probably delete this and i'll just repost when i know what the hell i'm talking about. Sorry for being a pain in the ass.

[NavajoEverclear]

The Sun is about 108 times its diameter from the Earth (107.7) and the moon is about 108 times it's diameter from the Earth (110.7) . . . . according to my calculations. As a site note, 108 is a sacred number in Hinduism, i do not recall if this was before or after such calculations.

 

Why is this number as it is? Is it a coincidence, or is there a particular reason within the laws of physics? Is some relationship about this number related to why Earth is conducive to life?

[RICHARDBATTY]

Could be an average amount of mass per diameter to orbital distance type of coincidense.

[swansont]

Why is this number as it is? Is it a coincidence, or is there a particular reason within the laws of physics? Is some relationship about this number related to why Earth is conducive to life?

 

Coincidence. You picked two values that were about 108. There are a much larger set of relationships that are not.

 

If your sacred number was 30, you would have noted that the moon is currently about 30 earth radii away from earth, and takes almost 30 days to revolve around the earth, and ignored these two "108" relationships.

 

 

edit: distance is radii, not diameters

[NavajoEverclear]

well i definately see what you are saying, i know you can use obscure relationships to appear to proove anything, but i'd say that this example sounds pretty relevant. They aren't some weird equation pulled out that you really have to work for to extract, its incredibly simple. Both the Sun and the Moon are aproximately 108 times their diameter away from the Earth. It seems it must mean something

[NavajoEverclear]

i wonder if there is a particular day in which both values are even closer to being precisely 108. It would be whenever we are a little farther from the sun, and the moon is a little closer to us. I dont know how the orbits work so i dont know when this would be except i dont think it would be in the summer

[swansont]

well i definately see what you are saying, i know you can use obscure relationships to appear to proove anything, but i'd say that this example sounds pretty relevant. They aren't some weird equation pulled out that you really have to work for to extract, its incredibly simple. Both the Sun and the Moon are aproximately 108 times their diameter away from the Earth. It seems it must mean something

 

It's data mining. Numerology. Pick some number, and you can find something that fits it.

[NavajoEverclear]

dude, you aren't listening to me. I've heard the term. That applies when you find some obscure relationship, which of coarse you'd use some type of logic to justify and stupid people would buy into it. This is not obscure. Trust me i feel really stupid repeating this again but i'm going to do it again anyway.

 

The moon and the sun are 108 times their respective diameters distanced from the Earth.

 

That is not data mining. Mining means you have to search for it, you have to dig. There is nothing to dig through. I'm not saying its supernatural or that we should worship ancient Hindus for discovering it. It is what it is and it is clearly coincidence too large to be written off (even though you are trying to) as concieved of some bogus method. It has to correlate with something.

[mezarashi]

NavajoEverclear, I think you may be overly defensive and somehow not looking at it logically. Just because this has to do with the Sun and Earth does not make it any more special. Yes I agree with you that this is a great coincidence, the information was "mined" by someone else who discovered it. As swansont said, there is a larger set of numbers and figures that do not coincide with this.

 

I can give you an special number right now: 911

-Terrorists bombed the twin towers on september 11th.

-911 is the American emergency dial number

-the twin towers look like two 1's, 11.

-9+1+1 = 11

-After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year

-September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11

-George W. Bush - 11 Letters

 

And I could go on and on. There are plenty of other numbers that may mean "significant" things to many other people, and they continue to build upon it in making it special. There is however nothing scientifically fundamental about these numbers I am sorry to say

[swansont]

dude' date=' you aren't listening to me. I've heard the term. That applies when you find some obscure relationship, which of coarse you'd use some type of logic to justify and stupid people would buy into it. This is not obscure. Trust me i feel really stupid repeating this again but i'm going to do it again anyway.

 

The moon and the sun are 108 times their respective diameters distanced from the Earth.

 

That is not data mining. Mining means you have to search for it, you have to dig. There is nothing to dig through. I'm not saying its supernatural or that we should worship ancient Hindus for discovering it. It is what it is and it is clearly coincidence too large to be written off (even though you are trying to) as concieved of some bogus method. It has to correlate with something.[/quote']

 

It is data mining. You just happened to have found a few nuggets on the ground, that's all. Two data points does not constitute evidence. This is precisely why science demands a lot of data. Two data points can be made to fit to a lot of different functions.

 

You aren't even making the same comparison - the moon orbits the earth, and the earth orbits the sun. Why aren't we ~108 earth diameters away from the sun? Why is it 108 sun diameters? Is this ratio true for other planets? And the ratios I pointed out are a lot closer to 30 than yours are to 108.

 

The fixation on how it can't be coincidence and that there must be meaning to it is a trait that some people have that ensures cults and con artists will never go away.

[NavajoEverclear]

mezarashi, i'm not being defensive, i'm just frustrated that people aren't thinking very hard. AND you just prooved my point about mining. Your relationship had six steps to it, like 6 degrees of seperation, fun game by the way. It took effort to figure that one out. My fact on the other hand has what, one, maybe two steps?

 

The fixation on how it can't be coincidence and that there must be meaning to it is a trait that some people have that ensures cults and con artists will never go away.

 

IDIOT! i'm not trying to start some cult. I think i said something like that somwhere, i'm sure there is a perfectly scientific explanation for the relationship, just asking if anyone knew what it was.

 

If you are so positive this is just data mining with no relevance, show me how the numbers are not unique. Show me how they are very common and meaningless. I'd really be fine to accept such an explanation if you could actually show it to me.

[NavajoEverclear]

before i sound like a hypocrit for not listening to you when i asked you to listen to me, i'll point out i just realized that mezarashi's list is not a six degrees of seperation type thing. They are simple isolated relationships. However i still tend to believe that the Sun, Moon, Earth thing is more significant. I give up tho, this is all a waste of time.

[mezarashi]

Wow, calling someone an "idiot" is sure not a constructive way to make a discussion. Your arguments are to the point where frankly I want to be preconceptual and dismiss them. It doesn't matter if you're starting a cult, it is the wanting a number to be special that does.

 

Your current claim is based on the fact that this number "108" isn't mined, and the reason? Let me quote you:

 

dude' date=' you aren't listening to me. I've heard the term. That applies when you find some obscure relationship, which of coarse you'd use some type of logic to justify and stupid people would buy into it. This is not obscure. Trust me i feel really stupid repeating this again but i'm going to do it again anyway.

 

The moon and the sun are 108 times their respective diameters distanced from the Earth.

 

That is not data mining. Mining means you have to search for it, you have to dig. There is nothing to dig through. I'm not saying its supernatural or that we should worship ancient Hindus for discovering it. It is what it is and it is clearly coincidence too large to be written off (even though you are trying to) as concieved of some bogus method. It has to correlate with something.[/quote']

 

"This is not obscure. Trust me..."

This is not a very scientific statement by my standards.

 

"Mining means you have to search for it, you have to dig. There is nothing to dig through."

You didn't have to "dig" through anything when I told you about MY special number.

 

Whether you know the "special" facts before the formulation of the "number" or you start with the number and make it special doesn't make any difference. Here's an example of knowing some common numbers then making it special.

 

- I find out that this girl in class has the same birthday as me, so thus she is my soul mate or atleast someone special.

 

Your next claim is supposedly going to be that this is about the Sun and Earth! Those are big things, and those are important. Scientifically speaking, our physics is based on non-variance, meaning everything is equal to everything else. Thinking that the Sun and Earth are special is already a human subjection. I don't know where you will try to lead this on however, but instead of having us prove that your 108 is not unique, why don't you prove that it is. Prove on an objective basis that it is more unique than say... swansont's 30.

 

On another note about special numbers, numbers like the charge of an electron and physical constants would be considered more "special". Life could not exist, or the universe wouldn't be the way it is if it were any different (i.e. if the charge on an electron were 0.000001 more than it is). See anthropic principle.

[swansont]

IDIOT!

 

Oh, well now I'm convinced.

 

i'm not trying to start some cult. I think i said something like that somwhere' date=' i'm sure there is a perfectly scientific explanation for the relationship, just asking if anyone knew what it was.

 

If you are so positive this is just data mining with no relevance, show me how the numbers are not unique. Show me how they are very common and meaningless. I'd really be fine to accept such an explanation if you could actually show it to me.[/quote']

 

 

You're sure that it's special, but you haven't established that it is. That's the first step. Then you can go looking for the physical underpinnings. It's your thesis that the number is special, so it's up to you to prove it. The null hypothesis is that it isn't special.

 

I didn't say you were starting a cult. But this assumption that a coincidence is not a coincidence, without proof, is not scientific at all. It's anti-science, it's all too common, and it can be dangerous.

[NavajoEverclear]

my dignity doesn't want me to admit defeat, and so i wont. i will however confess the obvious, that i indulged in ignorance, consequently damaging my value of credibility. I still think the number means something, because from my knowledge base it appears too large a coincidence to be otherwise. I know that might not be a terribly expansive area, but i don't know where to start to proove it either way. Since no one here manifested knows either, and no progress is being made, i think the discussion should be ended.

[greentea]

I would assume that this number 'means something' from purely historical reasons. It might be a coincidence discovered long ago. Most planetary orbits can be fitted into Platonic solids, but I doubt this shows something fundamental about the universe. Rather, at the time science was still mixed with mysticism. Newton spent most of his life doing alchemy.

[mezarashi]

my dignity doesn't want me to admit defeat, and so i wont.

 

Don't take it too personally. You started this thread with an inquisitive attitude. Where did it change so suddently? You asked if there was a scientific relationship or something fundamental about the ratio. The answer and responses so far say no, or atleast nobody has expressed themselves if they believed yes.

[NavajoEverclear]

well it hasn't really changed, i'd still kinda like to know, but since it doesn't appear that's happening i just wanted to end the useless arguing.

[neo48]

There is a magice number nut it is not 108 . I beleive that. * **109 ***is a more accurate number .according to my calculations the sun is apx 109 times its diametwr from the earth amd the moon ia apx 109 times as well.     109 !!   That should shed some light upon your quest my freind

. A simple correction in math.

 

109 

 

 

Your welcome navajo

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, neo48 said:

A simple correction in math.

You mean numerology. It's not math.

[swansont]

The magic number is 18. That’s how many years it’s been since someone had last posted.

[TheVat]

Well it is the product of 1^{1 x} 2^{2 x} 3³ so that's kind of cute in a Ramanujan and the London taxi sort of way.  

Also the product of the Supreme Court staff times an American jury.

Also the sum of the "Lost" numbers:

https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Numbers

This way madness lies.