2 hours ago, DrmDoc said:

When one evaluates what is actually occurring in the brain during its REM state, one may only concluded that such activity is a byproduct of our brain's metabolic processes during sleep. 

How would you then classify the creative elements encountered in some dreams? I refer specifically to concepts that may then be applied constructively in ones waking state.

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 3:03 PM, Area54 said:

How would you then classify the creative elements encountered in some dreams? I refer specifically to concepts that may then be applied constructively in ones waking state.

The activations in the brain arising from its metabolic needs in sleep involve the same cognitive centers active during our waking state with transient hypofrontality as its only exception.   What this suggest is that the active thought processes in sleep services our brain's metabolic needs by increasing the flow of oxygen and nutrient rich blood into its structure amid the sleep process, which is what the brain continually does during its waking state.  This activation of its cognitive centers amid sleep is merely a continuation of those conscious cognitive processes that may produce the creative elements some of us believe our dreams can provide.  Dreaming is merely an altered state of consciousness and the cognitive processes we consciously engage.

3 hours ago, DrmDoc said:

.  Dreaming is merely an altered state of consciousness and the cognitive processes we consciously engage.

So, in your view in both states we are, essentially, behaving mechanically?

Not immediately relevant here, perhaps, but here is a review of a new book on sleep.

Grauniad

13 hours ago, Area54 said:

So, in your view in both states we are, essentially, behaving mechanically?

If by "mechanically" you are suggesting biologically, then yes.    Everything about sleep owes its origin to how our brain evolved to service its metabolic needs.

13 minutes ago, DrmDoc said:

If by "mechanically" you are suggesting biologically, then yes.    Everything about sleep owes its origin to how our brain evolved to service its metabolic needs.

My question was implicitly one about free will. That is, you are taking a reductionist,  biochemical accounting of the "products" of sleep and applying the same thinking to conscious brain processes. My reading of your postiion, which may be completely misguided, is that you are seeing all brain processes, conscious and unconscious as deterministic and discount the importance of emergent properties such as consciousness. I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you, but just seeking to understand your position.

Edited September 25, 20178 yr by Area54

1 hour ago, Area54 said:

My question was implicitly one about free will.

As I understood the OP, this discussion regarded physiology vs. psychology.  Your question appears to regard philosophy.  If so, this may not be the forum for that discussion.  If I may inquire, what is the relevance of free will in this discussion?

Quote

That is, you are taking a reductionist,  biochemical accounting of the "products" of sleep and applying the same thinking to conscious brain processes. My reading of your postiion, which may be completely misguided, is that you are seeing all brain processes, conscious and unconscious as deterministic and discount the importance of emergent properties such as consciousness. I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you, but just seeking to understand your position.  

I perceive the emergent properties of the brain for what they are, which is as properties that emerge from the basic physiological processes that service our survival demands.  Consciousness emerges from brain function rather than the reverse and its importance reside in how it's used and can be used to service our biology.

Edited September 25, 20178 yr by DrmDoc