dstebbins Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 In the 1970s, the USA switched to a fiat currency system. Today's U.S. dollar isn't backed by anything. So why is gold still valuable? The current price of gold is about $1,290 per troy ounce, according to this source: http://www.apmex.com/spotprices/gold-price Gold is so valuable that, unless you're dealing exclusively in $100 or $50 bills, the equivalent value in paper money would actually weight MORE than the equivalent value in gold! Each U.S. banknote weights 1 gram, and there are approximately 31.105 grams in a troy ounce, so if you were dealing in denominations of $20 or less, it would take at least 65 banknotes (or twice the weight of a troy ounce) to come out to $1,290. Bear in mind ... the only reason gold was used as currency for 99% of human history is because it wasn't useful for a whole lot else! That's why people stopped dealing in salt. Salt had universal value since it was used to preserve food before the invention of refrigerators (which is why the modern phrase "worth his salt" is often used interchangeably with "worth its weight in gold"), but that presented a conundrum for many people; do I rub the salt on some meat, and then I don't have the salt to spend on anything else anymore, or do I spend the salt on something else I need, and then I can't use it to preserve my food? To solve that conundrum, humanity switched to a currency that doesn't serve any other practical purpose, and they chose gold to fill that role. But nowadays, gold is right back to having no practical use! So why is gold so valuable? In the Fallout series of video games, people use bottlecaps as currency, but that's because a majority of people don't have much faith in the existing government's fiat currency. That doesn't apply here in the real world. I refuse to accept that people just have no faith in the U.S. government to back the value of their dollar. So what gives? Why is gold still so valuable?
Area54 Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 It isn't. 24 minutes ago, dstebbins said: Why is gold still so valuable? It isn't. Let me help you out by disposing of any excess and valueless gold you have. I'll even refund you the postage. 2
dstebbins Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Area54 said: It isn't. It isn't. Let me help you out by disposing of any excess and valueless gold you have. I'll even refund you the postage. I provided a source showing that gold is currently worth about $1,290 per troy ounce. So shut up. -3
Endy0816 Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) People value random things. Shrug. Gold did see use as a soft metal though. Practically speaking governments simply decreased the gold-currency exchange rate(or the percentage of gold in coins) when they needed to issue new currency without having the gold to back it. It was more than a little pointless. Edited August 17, 2017 by Endy0816
Manticore Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 Electronics - gold plated connectors are everywhere.
dstebbins Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Endy0816 said: Practically speaking governments simply decreased the gold-currency exchange rate(or the percentage of gold in coins) when they needed to issue new currency without having the gold to back it. It was more than a little pointless. Fair enough. But that doesn't answer the question of why gold, nowadays, is so valuable that it's actually more valuable than the fiat currency we actually use except in the largest denominations, even though it no longer serves as the foundation for our paper money. 34 minutes ago, Manticore said: Electronics - gold plated connectors are everywhere. That doesn't mean gold has a utility to it. Gold plating is just decoration. It's just like jewelry; gold is used for decoration like that because it is seen as valuable, not the other way around. The use of gold as decoration does not give it value; it's a result of people seeing it as valuable.
Manticore Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dstebbins said: That doesn't mean gold has a utility to it. Gold plating is just decoration. It's just like jewelry; gold is used for decoration like that because it is seen as valuable, not the other way around. The use of gold as decoration does not give it value; it's a result of people seeing it as valuable. Completely wrong. Gold is a good conductor and does not oxidise - there is no substitute. Gold plating on contacts is used in the interior of almost all electronic devices so it is absolutely not decorative in this application. Edited August 17, 2017 by Manticore 1
dstebbins Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Manticore said: Completely wrong. Gold is a good conductor and does not oxidise - there is no substitute. Gold plating on contacts is used in the interior of almost all electronic devices so it is absolutely not decorative. Ok, so that provides exactly ONE utility for it. Does that really justify it being worth a whopping $1,290 per troy ounce?
rangerx Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, dstebbins said: Ok, so that provides exactly ONE utility for it. Gold is one of only a few metals that does not cause systemic poisoning. It does not stain skin, nor damage other gems affixed to it. Silver tarnish will damage pearls. It's used for fillings, partial plates, dental bridges and other prosthetic devices. There are multiple uses in laboratory applications, where other metals can skew or contaminate results. Gold an effective treatment in chronic inflammatory arthritis. Gold is readily identifiable, highly malleable with basic tools and easily recycled. Sheets (gold leaf) can be milled to mere microns of thickness without affecting appearance or work-ability. It can be mined in almost any country by simple processes (depending on concentrations and viability) using simple crushing (mineral source) or water washing (placer source). 1
Manticore Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 The amount of gold used works out to about 1 troy ounce per 1000 smartphones (or approximately 500 PCs). That works out at around $1.3 per smartphone ($2.6 per PC). Not really terribly expensive - but multiply by the billions of these devices in the world and you have a pretty good market.
dimreepr Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 3 hours ago, dstebbins said: So what gives? Why is gold still so valuable? Because some people say it is and the rest believe them. 2
Strange Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 3 hours ago, dstebbins said: Why is gold still so valuable? The question seems to imply that gold was valuable because the currency was backed by it. But that the wrong way round, it was used to back the currency because it had value. It still has value for the same reasons it always did (scarcity, shiny, doesn't oxidise, has some useful properties for industry, etc.) 3 hours ago, dstebbins said: Salt had universal value since it was used to preserve food before the invention of refrigerators I think salt ceased to be used as a form of payment long before the invention of the refrigerator. I guess this was due to increasing supply undermining its apparent value. 59 minutes ago, dstebbins said: But that doesn't answer the question of why gold, nowadays, is so valuabl People invest in gold when they don't trust the stock market, interest rates are low, etc. It is (rightly or wrongly) seen as a safe investment (for the same reasons that it was used as the basis of currency). 1
DrP Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 It is a very pretty metal for jewellery... and as ranger said above it is so inert and doesn't cause allergies that some other metals cause.... It is truly amazing how girls can wear anything at all.... but suddenly when they get married or into a serious long term relationship they become allergic to base metals and can only wear gold. 1
Manticore Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Why is gold still valuable if it's not money anymore? Might make more sense if the question read: Why is money still valuable if it's not gold anymore? Edited August 17, 2017 by Manticore 4
Endy0816 Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 I think I remember reading we mine far more than industry uses. Necessarily there is also a cost to store it, so rationally you would expect the value to fall. Mostly propped up and rises due to belief, until eventually falling. http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart
dimreepr Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Endy0816 said: I think I remember reading we mine far more than industry uses. Necessarily there is also a cost to store it, so rationally you would expect the value to fall. Mostly propped up and rises due to belief, until eventually falling. http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart Indeed, if you want to invest in something that will appreciate considerably over the next ten years, buy indium. Edited August 17, 2017 by dimreepr
Sensei Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) On 8/17/2017 at 8:43 AM, dstebbins said: Does that really justify it being worth a whopping $1,290 per troy ounce? The price for some goods reflects human willingness to buy them. Price raises when there is more buyers than sellers, and vice versa. Edited August 20, 2017 by Sensei
Strange Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Sensei said: The price for some goods reflects human willingness to buy them. Price raises when there is more buyers than sellers, and vice versa. Just noticed that the price of bitcoins has shot up in the last few months. So even something that doesn't exist can have a high value.
Manticore Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 The price of diamonds is much weirder than the price of gold. If I buy a diamond for ornamentation, I could pay a (not so) small fortune. Yet I can get a diamond saw blade with thousands of them for $10.
zapatos Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Quote From a elemental perspective, gold is the most logical choice for a medium of exchange for goods and services. It is abundant enough to create coins, but rare enough that not everyone can make them. It doesn't corrode, providing a sustainable store of value, and humans are physically attracted to its color and feel. Societies, and now economies, have placed value on gold, thus perpetuating its worth. It is the metal we fall back on when other forms of currency don't work, which means it always has some value as insurance against tough times. Read more: Why Gold Has Always Had Value | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/071114/why-gold-has-always-had-value.asp#ixzz4qK5jx3Oo Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/071114/why-gold-has-always-had-value.asp The primary utility of gold is probably that it has properties valued by humans to maintain its value in the long term. Just like the dollar, you place value on it because of your confidence that you can exchange it for something that matches the value of what you gave away for it.
Sensei Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Manticore said: The price of diamonds is much weirder than the price of gold. If I buy a diamond for ornamentation, I could pay a (not so) small fortune. Yet I can get a diamond saw blade with thousands of them for $10. They are made of synthetic diamonds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond Search for "synthetic" here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_blade Edited August 20, 2017 by Sensei
Manticore Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Sensei said: They are made of synthetic diamonds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond Search for "synthetic" here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_blade I know that, but they are in no way different to mined diamonds. The entire ornamental diamond industry was created by de Beers in the 1930s by a massive advertising campaign. Diamonds are intrinsically worthless, except for the deep psychological need they fill. -De Beers chairman Nicky Oppenheimer
MigL Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 And the sad part... Fake diamonds are flawless while real ones have defects. That's how most jewellers tell them apart. ( the things we do for women... )
Manticore Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 I wouldn't call them "fakes" - a fake is something that is not real - they are real diamonds, just manufactured rather than found.
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