Sensei Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 5 hours ago, seriously disabled said: The way I see it there is no creator or designer that actually cares about humans, otherwise this world will not be so cruel and hard for many people every day. This is result of misconception that Universe/Earth has been created for humans..
Moontanman Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 11 hours ago, Anonymous Participant said: Again, I challenge anyone here to provide a single piece of empirical proof or evidence that the universe is not an intelligent design. You have this bass ackwards, if you are asserting the universe is intelligently designed then the burden of proof is on you! Personally I really don't know, I do know that science has little to nothing to say about before the big bang. You however appear to be claiming knowledge no one else has. I am excited to hear your knowledge and the evidence that supports it.. 1
Silvestru Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 Science can destroy religion by ignoring it as well as by disproving its tenets. No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, the non-existence of Zeus or Thor — but they have few followers now. - Arthur C. Clarke Anonymous Participant, you seem like a rational person aside for the whole ID. Tell me, if you never heard of your God and just stumbled on an old dusty book called the "Bible" in a library and you read it. Would you go: wow that is a great science fiction collection of stories or would you make it your new religion and start preaching ID on a science forum? Spoiler 1
Anonymous Participant Posted September 7, 2017 Author Posted September 7, 2017 17 hours ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note That's not how this works. You need to provide evidence in support of your assertion. If you do not, this will be closed. If you go off-topic, this will be closed. I HAVE presented my evidence for intelligent design and stated it quite succinctly what it is, and you know it. The evidence of intelligent design is every single observation we make in science, and that the scientific process itself is predicated upon the belief that there is an intelligent arrangement that can be decoded by intelligence. I am putting the ball in your court, I have said my evidence is everything about the universe, and yours is obviously nothing and you know it. I have given you ample room and method to falsify my evidence of EVERYTHING , every single observation yet made in science. Now if you can't find a single observation that falsifies it, you have to face the fact that you're wrong, and you are. You are desperate to censor my intelligent contribution here because you are intellectually incapable of defeating me in scientific debate or on the evidence itself. If you want a specific evidence how about the fact that the earth supporting life is dependent upon a very large number of precise conditions and complex interactions, any of which a slight variation would cause life to cease to exist, or the properties of water, the distance of the moon from the earth being precise enough to cause total solar eclipses where the sun and moon appear identical in size, the fact that when the Sun experiences a solar flare the strength of the geomagnetic field increases in direct response, the fact that so many forms, numerical sequences and relationships are repeated in nearly everything and the DNA code being indistinguishable from intelligence. Come on man, you know I've given my evidence, you're a religious fanatic supporting a faith based idea having an identical reaction to any other religious fanatic when your beliefs are challenged!. 9 hours ago, Sensei said: This is result of misconception that Universe/Earth has been created for humans.. WRONG! Organized religion does operate on that assumption but I believe we are just an integral part of it and we project our conscious onto energy to create what we perceive as our reality. There are numerous experiments being conducted that prove the physical world around us does not exist until we consciously observe it, that indicates we are integral to it. The belief in intelligent design of the universe has nothign whatsoever to do with religion other than religious people believe the universe is an intelligent design, it has to do with science.You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater 49 minutes ago, Silvestru said: Science can destroy religion by ignoring it as well as by disproving its tenets. No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, the non-existence of Zeus or Thor — but they have few followers now. - Arthur C. Clarke Anonymous Participant, you seem like a rational person aside for the whole ID. Tell me, if you never heard of your God and just stumbled on an old dusty book called the "Bible" in a library and you read it. Would you go: wow that is a great science fiction collection of stories or would you make it your new religion and start preaching ID on a science forum? Reveal hidden contents I do not believe in a God as you obviously perceive it, some old dude with flaming radioactive eyes and huge flowing grey beard sitting on a huge golden throne in the sky metering out suffering to anyone who opposes his will, I believe in something very different, that the universe, the self and the creator are integral to each other. It is critical to understand that science is not a religion nor is it a pulpit for atheism, but it si obvious this forum is. It is equally obvious that academia has been taken over and controlled by atheists. Yesterday evening I posted a comment from Albert Einstein which said essentially the same thing I have here about intelligent design and it was removed very swiftly by the above atheist moderator, for obvious reasons. He might be the god of Aesthetic pseudoscience but he was a deist and he believed in a creator and intelligent design himself. -2
Silvestru Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, Anonymous Participant said: I do not believe in a God as you obviously perceive it, some old dude with flaming radioactive eyes and huge flowing grey beard sitting on a huge golden throne in the sky metering out suffering to anyone who opposes his will, I believe in something very different, that the universe, the self and the creator are integral to each other. And is this creator sentient? Does she have a mind of her own, a conscience? Can you please describe her?
Anonymous Participant Posted September 7, 2017 Author Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Silvestru said: And is this creator sentient? Does she have a mind of her own, a conscience? Can you please describe her? Your simplistic , abrasive and confrontational comment betrays your lack of understanding, giving the creator a gender is obviously irrational. The creator is everything and everything is the creator and we are integral to it. The main observation in science that proves this is the repeating phenomenon that our own conscious observation of energy manifests into matter, into physical reality. In a way we are creating our own reality and the common collective conscious is how it is projected upon all of us.. Quote: Albert Einstein "Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection." It seems your god believed the same thing I do, exactly. You got some 'plaining to do, Lucy Edited September 7, 2017 by Anonymous Participant
Strange Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 34 minutes ago, Anonymous Participant said: the scientific process itself is predicated upon the belief that there is an intelligent arrangement that can be decoded by intelligence Nope. The scientific method is based on methodological naturalism which specifically excludes the supernatural. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Methodological_naturalism But feel free to provide some real evidence (not just assertions) that the scientific method is based on Intelligent Design. 38 minutes ago, Anonymous Participant said: There are numerous experiments being conducted that prove the physical world around us does not exist until we consciously observe it, that indicates we are integral to it. Only if you misunderstand them and subscribe to the beliefs of Quantum Woo. Quote It is critical to understand that science is not a religion nor is it a pulpit for atheism, but it si obvious this forum is. It is equally obvious that academia has been taken over and controlled by atheists. Any evidence for that? Or just another assertion? 20 minutes ago, Anonymous Participant said: The main observation in science that proves this is the repeating phenomenon that our own conscious observation of energy manifests into matter, into physical reality. Citation needed. So far, you are providing a lot of emotional assertions but are short of evidence. Just insisting "everything is evidence of ID/Creationism" is not helpful. An atheist could equally well say "everything is evidence of the absence of a designer". Unless you can demonstrate, in an objective and quantitative fashion, that some piece of evidence supports your belief more strongly than another point of view, then all you have is empty assertions. They are of no value in a scientific discussion.
studiot Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Anonymous Participant said: The evidence of intelligent design is every single observation we make in science, and that the scientific process itself is predicated upon the belief that there is an intelligent arrangement that can be decoded by intelligence. This would be the first time I have noticed this chain of reasoning in your posts. I am not saying you did not post it before, but that if you did I missed it. So thank you for making your position clear. However I see two problems with this chain. Firstly you use of the phrase 'every single observation we make' which is too all embracing and trivially falsified. In general all embracing staments contain the seeds of their own destruction. And it is quite unnecessary since one single observation of a non artificially occurring phenomenon that can be definitely attributed to an 'intelligent arrangement' could be used as evidence of some form of intellignet design. Second and more important you clearly have insufficient knowledge of the mathematics of arrangements as your conclusion does not follow from your premise. There are those here who would be happy to explain such amthemaics to you if you were prepared to listen. One question, are you familiar with the First Law of Thermodynamics? Edited September 7, 2017 by studiot
Anonymous Participant Posted September 7, 2017 Author Posted September 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, Strange said: Nope. The scientific method is based on methodological naturalism which specifically excludes the supernatural. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Methodological_naturalism But feel free to provide some real evidence (not just assertions) that the scientific method is based on Intelligent Design. Only if you misunderstand them and subscribe to the beliefs of Quantum Woo. Any evidence for that? Or just another assertion? Citation needed. So far, you are providing a lot of emotional assertions but are short of evidence. Just insisting "everything is evidence of ID/Creationism" is not helpful. An atheist could equally well say "everything is evidence of the absence of a designer". Unless you can demonstrate, in an objective and quantitative fashion, that some piece of evidence supports your belief more strongly than another point of view, then all you have is empty assertions. They are of no value in a scientific discussion. And you are an atheist, correct? Defending your religious belief? Atheism IS a religious belief. And belief concerning the existence or non existence of a god or sentient being is a religious belief, a negative is a belief. AN atheist could say everything is evidence of a lack of intelligent design, but he would be blowing smoke out his ass 12 minutes ago, studiot said: This would be the first time I have noticed this chain of reasoning in your posts. I am not saying you did not post it before, but that if you did I missed it. So thank you for making your position clear. However I see two problems with this chain. Firstly you use of the phrase 'every single observation we make' which is too all embracing and trivially falsified. In general all embracing staments contain the seeds of their own destruction. And it is quite unnecessary since one single observation of a non artificially occurring phenomenon that can be definitely attributed to an 'intelligent arrangement' could be used as evidence of some form of intellignet design. Second and more important you clearly have insufficient knowledge of the mathematics of arrangements as your conclusion does not follow from your premise. There are those here who would be happy to explain such amthemaics to you if you were prepared to listen. One question, are you familiar with the First Law of Thermodynamics? The conservation of energy has nothign to do with this debate. We know energy and matter are interchangeable though experiment and observation. However, entropy does disprove the big bang succinctly. Intelligent design is one of the most falsifiable theories in science. All you have to do is prove one natural phenomenon or thing in the universe lacks an intelligent design or indicated a lack thereof.. GOOD LUCK -2
swansont Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Anonymous Participant said: I HAVE presented my evidence for intelligent design and stated it quite succinctly what it is, and you know it. ! Moderator Note You might be better served by opening a new thread and asking what constitutes scientific evidence. Spoiler alert: assertion ain't it. Don't bring this topic up again.
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