Black Holes

[Paritosh Sontake]

My Question was that if Black Holes encountered Something Bigger than the black hole in terms of mass and area, What would Happpen? Of course the object is a solid. Will the object break down to smaller rocks and then get sucked into the black hole or will it just plug the black hole?

[Daecon]

Why would that second thing not already become a black hole by itself?

Black holes happen when an object is so massive, its own gravity makes it collapse.

On second thought, I may be mis-understanding your question.

If so, perhaps you may find this Wikipedia link on Spaghettification informative: Spaghettification

Edited September 12, 2017 by Daecon
formatification

[beecee]

57 minutes ago, Paritosh Sontake said:

My Question was that if Black Holes encountered Something Bigger than the black hole in terms of mass and area, What would Happpen? Of course the object is a solid. Will the object break down to smaller rocks and then get sucked into the black hole or will it just plug the black hole?

BHs are not gluttonous pigs so to speak. A BH encountering a large mass will pull that mass into an orbit and gradually pull its matter into an accretion disk, with the matter spiralling into the BH. The following is an illustration from APOD 

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap131120.html

In expecting a reasonable question re the polar jets, no they are not coming from the BH, but best theoretical science puts them down to some of the matter that is swept around by a BHs spin and possible magnetic field, then thrown out at the polar regions.

Edited September 12, 2017 by beecee

[Klaynos]

32 minutes ago, Daecon said:

Why would that second thing not already become a black hole by itself?

Black holes happen when an object is so massive, its own gravity makes it collapse.

On second thought, I may be mis-understanding your question.

If so, perhaps you may find this Wikipedia link on Spaghettification informative: Spaghettification

You can have objects that are bigger than the collapse mass but don't. Some stars fall into this category, the radiation pressure keeps them from collapse. 

On the question in the op, it'll turn into an accretion disk and slowly merge with the the black hole. The exact details will depend on what it is and how they are moving relative to each other. 

[Dubbelosix]

On 12/09/2017 at 6:14 AM, Paritosh Sontake said:

My Question was that if Black Holes encountered Something Bigger than the black hole in terms of mass and area, What would Happpen? Of course the object is a solid. Will the object break down to smaller rocks and then get sucked into the black hole or will it just plug the black hole?

 

A small black hole, encountering the earth, is a similar problem... unless you mean a big black hole encountering another ... well... let's consider both.

 

 

As a small black hole comes within the distance of our nearest neighbour, Mars, we will begin to feel tidal effects, there will be tsunamis over the face of the earth. As it comes to within half the distance of Mars, we will begin to experience terrible earth quakes... maybe volcanoes will become alive again. Tsunamis galore and in greater sizes and amounts.

 

When it is about 20 million km, we will experience tremendous forces on the surface of the earth - these are tidal forces as they would work on the ocean. The human race will be almost completely wiped out by this point. As it approaches further, the earth's mantel will break and be dragged out into space, to cool in the dead of the vacuum and become like spaghetti. 

A small black hole and a large one, simply merge, giving off what is known as gravitational radiation, which is actually not radiation but a type of distortion in the fabric of spacetime. 

Sorry I got confused, I have edited my last post, i didn't mean parsects at all, I meant something entirely different. I wrote something else because I was engaged in another discussion lol.. corrected now.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Dubbelosix

[zapatos]

11 minutes ago, Dubbelosix said:

When it is a few hundreds of parsects, we will experience tremendous forces on the surface of the earth - these are tidal forces as they would work on the ocean. The human race will be almost completely wiped out by this point. As it approaches further, the earth's mantel will break and be dragged out into space, to cool in the dead of the vacuum and become like spaghetti. 

 

A black hole that can wipe out the human race from a few hundred parsecs away would be one big SOB.

[Dubbelosix]

Indeed! I actually corrected this before you posted, you see, I got entangled between two conversations I am having. I then came back and saw what I wrote, and I apologize for my mistake. 

well spotted by the way, I feel encouraged by this. That people are paying attention.

[zapatos]

No problem!  What was your correction? I'm not sure I'm seeing it.

[Dubbelosix]

I corrected the parsects comment, I was engaged in two conversations, inbetween, made a cup of tea and got confused lol.... I corrected it to 20 million km, that's about half the distance to mars if my memory serves correct?

[zapatos]

I see your change now. I think there was just a delay in refreshing. Thanks.

[dimreepr]

53 minutes ago, Dubbelosix said:

 

A small black hole, encountering the earth, is a similar problem... unless you mean a big black hole encountering another ... well... let's consider both.

 

 

As a small black hole comes within the distance of our nearest neighbour, Mars, we will begin to feel tidal effects, there will be tsunamis over the face of the earth. As it comes to within half the distance of Mars, we will begin to experience terrible earth quakes... maybe volcanoes will become alive again. Tsunamis galore and in greater sizes and amounts.

 

When it is about 20 million km, we will experience tremendous forces on the surface of the earth - these are tidal forces as they would work on the ocean. The human race will be almost completely wiped out by this point. As it approaches further, the earth's mantel will break and be dragged out into space, to cool in the dead of the vacuum and become like spaghetti. 

A small black hole and a large one, simply merge, giving off what is known as gravitational radiation, which is actually not radiation but a type of distortion in the fabric of spacetime. 

Sorry I got confused, I have edited my last post, i didn't mean parsects at all, I meant something entirely different. I wrote something else because I was engaged in another discussion lol.. corrected now.

I'm sure there is no mathematical theoretical size limit for a black hole, but I would assume, given the science that if the parent star of the singularity was big enough to go supernova; how could it be small enough to exist in our solar system and not affect us? 

Edited September 28, 2017 by dimreepr

[Dubbelosix]

13 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I'm sure there is no mathematical theoretical size limit for a black hole, but I would assume, given the science that if the parent star of the singularity was big enough to go supernova; how could it be small enough to exist in our solar system and not affect us? 

Well, yes it does depend on size, when he asked, a small black hole, I have him a theoretical situation, based on computer simulations I have seen, from a black hole, about the eighth of the size of the earth. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Dubbelosix

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Dubbelosix said:

Well, yes it does depend on size, when he asked, a small black hole, I have him a theoretical situation, based on computer simulations I have seen, from a black hole, about the eight of the size of the earth. 

That doesn't explain how such a singularity could be created? Before CERN was turned on there was speculation that micro singularities could be created, no evidence so far, do you have any?

[Dubbelosix]

Oh let's not get into singularities please lol... ask someone else.

 

I have had enough in these days talking about singularities, especially recently within the concept of 'countable infinities' and the 'Hilbert Hotel' not really my taste

When people ask me about singularities, I want them to think about ridiculously epic music like the following

 

 

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Dubbelosix said:

Oh let's not get into singularities please lol... ask someone else.

 

I have had enough in these days talking about singularities, especially recently within the concept of 'countable infinities' and the 'Hilbert Hotel' not really my taste

 

Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Do you even realise, a black hole is a singularity?  

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Do you even realise, a black hole is a singularity?  

I would say a black hole is defined by the event horizon not by the (probably non-existent) singularity. That is where it becomes black and hole-like.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Strange

[Dubbelosix]

3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Do you even realise, a black hole is a singularity?  

 

 

No, a black hole doesn't need to have a singularity. That's the whole point.

 

In fact in my crucial years of learning, I came to understand if a singularity arises in a theory, it's probably the sign of a mistake somewhere. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Dubbelosix

[J.C.MacSwell]

Assuming the larger mass is not a black hole but large enough, it could ingest the blackhole followed by the black hole ingesting it from inside, with parts of the larger mass possibly breaking off and escaping or orbiting depending on their relative momentum and of course never getting inside the increasing event horizon.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

I would say a black hole is defined by the event horizon not by the (probably non-existent) singularity.

I knew I'd be pulled up short on that, but it doesn't really change my answer, a black hole must have the smallest size...

[Dubbelosix]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I knew I'd be pulled up short on that, but it doesn't really change my answer, a black hole must have the smallest size...

Yes a black hole can have a minimum size, its known as a Planck particle. 

3 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Assuming the larger mass is not a black hole but large enough, it could ingest the blackhole followed by the black hole ingesting it from inside, with parts of the larger mass possibly breaking off and escaping or orbiting depending on their relative momentum and of course never getting inside the increasing event horizon.

 

Emmm... No. Gravity follows the same speed rules as general speed of light, which are made of photons. 

 

Gravity couldn't possible tug to rip apart the inside. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Dubbelosix

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Dubbelosix said:

Yes a black hole can have a minimum size, its known as a Planck particle. 

Says who?

[Dubbelosix]

Just now, dimreepr said:

Says who?

The laws of physics, a Planck particle is by definition, a particle black hole. So says Wheeler. 

Mind you, wheeler meant it in terms of a bubbling of the quantum vacuum that he called a geon. A geon is not much different to a Planck particle, that is, a particle so dense it is a black hole in all respects. 

[Strange]

Just now, dimreepr said:

I knew I'd be pulled up short on that, but it doesn't really change my answer, a black hole must have the smallest size...

What do you mean by "smallest size"? A black hole's radius is proportional to its mass. For example, the black hole resulting from the recently detected gravitational waves had a radius of about 157 km.

[Dubbelosix]

Indeed, strange brings up a good point, particle black holes take on different forms as well. For instance, a geon is particle so dense it's own gravitational waves cannot escape. But its an almost trivial difference, but felt I should mention that after strange's comments. 

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

What do you mean by "smallest size"? A black hole's radius is proportional to its mass. For example, the black hole resulting from the recently detected gravitational waves had a radius of about 157 km.

I mean I don't really understand, 157 km? How was that created?