Is it ethical to view men and women as different?

[Area54]

Is it ethical to view men and women as different?

It can help avoid embarrassment when selecting a public convenience.

[Lord Antares]

10 hours ago, hypervalent_iodine said:

 

!

Moderator Note

A few things. Firstly, your use of language - specifically your use of the word retarded - needs to change. Secondly, the rules of this forum specifically prohibit members from slurring an entire group of people as you have done. If you can't contribute anything intelligent (or additive at the very least) to the discussion, I would ask that you don't bother contributing. 

 

Oh, boy, my first warning.

I just want to point out, it's very much allowed to make slurs against conservatives here. I've seen it done by mods (not naming names). I've seen those insulting posts by mods be upvoted. I've seen Trump supporters be equated to idiots, dimwits, assholes etc. I have personally not seen any action against that.

While I steer clear of those discussions, I would encourage you and the rest of the mods/admins to treat both sides equally. I see Raider got downvoted for simply pointing out the double standards, which proves my point.

So, slurs and hate speech are allowed, as long they are against the same group of people the mods hate. 

[Raider5678]

7 hours ago, CharonY said:

As a whole I do find the posts somewhat incoherent, though.

 

1

Most likely because I'm incoherent as well.

 

 

2 hours ago, scherado said:

I tell him this:

1. There is no bleeping way the woman therapist knows the trials and tribulations of having a penis. You might think, what if he's not there for sexual issues? On the slim chance that there's no issue there, I then go to #2.

2. Many men are quite skilled at getting women to "mother" them. Some make entire lifestyles out it.

3. There must be no chance the the therapist will become sexually attracted to you the patient. Some people don't have to worry about that, though they may be surprised.

2

1. Evidently, I missed those trials and tribulations.

2. I can't agree with that more.

3. Unlikely, because most of the times you're seeing a therapist for something other than life and death.

1 hour ago, Area54 said:

Is it ethical to view men and women as different?

It can help avoid embarrassment when selecting a public convenience.

Or, you can just change your gender.

[scherado]

2 hours ago, EdEarl said:

Alzheimer's isn't the only one, there are many such differences. Sex differences are in every cell of women (XX) and men (XY), not just in sexual organs. Personally, I love these differences; have been married for over 30 years.

YES men and women are different, and it is necessary and ethically just to act differently with men and women. However, there are limits. Traditionally, women have been denied rights and justice. For example, women have been considered property of men, and some still are. That in my opinion is not ethically just, in general, but if a woman knowingly and willingly marries a man who treats his wife as property, then so be it. If I criticized, both would tell me to get lost--none of my business.

In my opinion, there is no simple answer to the OP.

I read all that, but found the last sentence to be not true based upon the sentences that precede it.

[Raider5678]

52 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

Oh, boy, my first warning.

I just want to point out, it's very much allowed to make slurs against conservatives here. I've seen it done by mods (not naming names). I've seen those insulting posts by mods be upvoted. I've seen Trump supporters be equated to idiots, dimwits, assholes etc. I have personally not seen any action against that.

While I steer clear of those discussions, I would encourage you and the rest of the mods/admins to treat both sides equally. I see Raider got downvoted for simply pointing out the double standards, which proves my point.

So, slurs and hate speech are allowed, as long they are against the same group of people the mods hate. 

To their credit, I did do a quick search for the word and apparently, it's only ever been said in this thread.

[scherado]

4 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

...I see Raider got downvoted for simply pointing out the double standards, which proves my point.

Preposterous. If you disagree point to the simple double-standards.

[EdEarl]

11 minutes ago, scherado said:

I read all that, but found the last sentence to be not true based upon the sentences that precede it.

Upon review, I agree, but can no longer edit that post.

[swansont]

16 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

 Premise 4: A physically born male should not be able to compete with physically born females, and vice versa. As this would lead to unfair advantages/disadvantages.

This distinction is not as clear-cut as you might think it is, or might want it to be. That's probably a discussion to be had in the biology section.

[Ten oz]

17 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

But that would lead to a premise unless I'm wrong.(I'm trying to use a logical system. Forgive me if I use this the wrong way).

Premise 1:  In some sports, women outperform men, and in others men outperform women.

Premise 2: Premise one is a generalization, not a absolute. 

Premise 3: In sports where men outperform women, there should be different groups, and in sports where women outperform men, there should be different groups. To keep things on an equal playing field.

So by premise 3, that would mean having different groups is appropriate, depending on the sport. 

But that leads to premise 4.

Premise 4: A physically born male should not be able to compete with physically born females, and vice versa. As this would lead to unfair advantages/disadvantages.

 

So I feel like all 4 of those premises are true. Do you agree?(Mainly I used the premises to show my train of thought since it's easier to say "premise 3 is wrong" or something like that than to try and pick out the particular part of it.)

 

Sports is a bad example. Even amongst people of the same height, weight, age, and years of experience/training there are very big differences. Those with different body types play different sports even within a specific sport body type often determines the position one will play. In an earlier post you mentioned fighting sports and qouted  "I've never felt so overpowered in my life"; in both the Boxing and the UFC people have died. Many people are totally overpowered and there has been debates for years as to whether fighting sports in general are ethical. So in bringing gender into that discussion you are merely adding mud to murky water. Even if we shift the sports example to something more mainstream like Football you'd still be dabbling in something which already has ongoing ethical concerns regarding protecting kickers, protecting quarterbacks, concussions, and etc. All contact sports are dangerous. All have seen deaths. All have their own ongoing ethical challanges. Complicating matters even more are Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs).  Amongst the most elite athletes in every sport a healthy percentage are caught cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Ten oz
spelling

[Raider5678]

4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Sports is a bad example. Even amongst people of the same height, weight, age, and years of experience/training there are very big differences. Those with different body types play different sports even with a specific sport body type often determins the position one will play. In an earlier post you mentioned a fighting and qouted  "I've never felt so overpowered in my life"; in both the Boxing and the UFC people have died. Many people are totally overpowered and there has been debates for years as to whether fighting sports in general are ethical. So in bringing gender into that discussion you are merely adding mud to a murky water. Even if we shift the sports example to something more mainstream like Football you'd still be dabbling in something which already has ongoing ethical concerns regarding protecting kickers, protecting quarterbacks, concussions, and etc. All contact sports are dangerous. All have seen deaths. All have their own ongoing ethical challanges. Complicating matters even more are Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs).  Amongst the most elite athletes in every sport a healthy percentage are caught cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

Alright. I largely agree with this actually.

[EdEarl]

4 minutes ago, swansont said:

This distinction is not as clear-cut as you might think it is, or might want it to be. That's probably a discussion to be had in the biology section.

The answer to the thread title, "Is it ethical to view men and women as different?" is YES; although, there are many scenarios in which men and women are viewed as equals.
 

[Ten oz]

1 minute ago, EdEarl said:

The answer to the thread title, "Is it ethical to view men and women as different?" is YES; although, there are many scenarios in which men and women are viewed as equals.
 

A clear context was never provided for answering the OP. It is ethical to view identical twins as different; each aretheir own individual person. Yes, men and women are different. Men and men are different too. All people are different from each other and those differences created all types of advantages. People with bald heads have the advantage of saving money on shampoo.

[Raider5678]

Just now, EdEarl said:

The answer to the thread title, "Is it ethical to view men and women as different?" is YES; although, there are many scenarios in which men and women are viewed as equals.
 

Just to be clear on a few things before I continue on.

 

I don't think women are dumber than men. Actually, I think the contrary for generalization.

I agree women should vote and have equal rights and all that other stuff.

 

I'm just wondering if the argument that women should be put to the same standards as men, especially in teenagers, is starting to push it.

 

[EdEarl]

Just now, Raider5678 said:

Just to be clear on a few things before I continue on.

 

I don't think women are dumber than men. Actually, I think the contrary for generalization.

I agree women should vote and have equal rights and all that other stuff.

 

I'm just wondering if the argument that women should be put to the same standards as men, especially in teenagers, is starting to push it.

 

I think generalizations can be trouble, regardless of how much we need them. The most ethical way to interact is to treat each person as an individual who has various likes, dislikes and needs.

[hypervalent_iodine]

1 hour ago, Lord Antares said:

Oh, boy, my first warning.

I just want to point out, it's very much allowed to make slurs against conservatives here. I've seen it done by mods (not naming names). I've seen those insulting posts by mods be upvoted. I've seen Trump supporters be equated to idiots, dimwits, assholes etc. I have personally not seen any action against that.

While I steer clear of those discussions, I would encourage you and the rest of the mods/admins to treat both sides equally. I see Raider got downvoted for simply pointing out the double standards, which proves my point.

So, slurs and hate speech are allowed, as long they are against the same group of people the mods hate. 

!

Moderator Note

As I said to Raider, if you are seeing this, then please report it. Staff have very limited time to review everything that gets posted. Hate speech and slurs are not okay and will not be tolerated, regardless of the target.

I personally do not read many threads these days, and I generally avoid political or religious threads. I do read all reports, however (as do all staff). If things are being posted there against the rules, I am almost definitely missing them unless they get reported.

If you wish to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me.

 

[swansont]

2 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

 While I steer clear of those discussions, I would encourage you and the rest of the mods/admins to treat both sides equally. I see Raider got downvoted for simply pointing out the double standards, which proves my point.

Downvotes are an entirely separate entity than rules violations. 

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, EdEarl said:

I think generalizations can be trouble, regardless of how much we need them. The most ethical way to interact is to treat each person as an individual who has various likes, dislikes and needs.

It was more of a joke. That kinda flew over your head. Anyways.

 

So, the next part is going to be controversial. But for now, you agree that boys and girls should not be expected to be able to handle the same problems the same way correct?

[MigL]

Depends on the problem...
Like, if you're trying to pee into a toilet/urinal that's 6 ft away.
( I am being sooo facetious ) 

[scherado]

19 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Premise 4: A physically born male should not be able to compete with physically born females, and vice versa. As this would lead to unfair advantages/disadvantages.

Now that makes perfect sense.

30 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

But for now, you agree that boys and girls should not be expected to be able to handle the same problems the same way correct?

But this question? Not so much!!!!

Edited October 3, 2017 by scherado

[swansont]

41 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

 So, the next part is going to be controversial. But for now, you agree that boys and girls should not be expected to be able to handle the same problems the same way correct?

I don't know that I would necessarily expect two boys (or two girls) to handle the same situation the same way. There is a spectrum of behavior, and it applies within a (traditional) gender, as well as between them.

[EdEarl]

58 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

It was more of a joke. That kinda flew over your head. Anyways.

 

So, the next part is going to be controversial. But for now, you agree that boys and girls should not be expected to be able to handle the same problems the same way correct?

Yes

[zapatos]

11 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

One thing I learned avidly about inside of school is that boys and girls are one and the same and both are equal. Not only that, but they should also not be treated any different or thought of in any way that indicates that they are anything else but exactly the same.

 

I suspect you either misunderstood or are exaggerating.

[Raider5678]

58 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I suspect you either misunderstood or are exaggerating.

Other than the very obvious such as boys and girls bathrooms, even though some guys occasionally "become" a girl for a while(actually, the pranks with that have mostly stopped honestly.), different locker rooms, etc. 

There have been a few points where it was very obvious that the teacher was implying that the girl should be able to handle it because a guy was able to handle a similar situation.

However, in my opinion, the guy doesn't "handle" the situation so much as get through it. And if they both get through the same situation in different ways of processing it, then that doesn't mean there should be any reason to say a girl should be able to handle it because someone else did.

[PurplePuppy]

Men and women are different anatomically and psychologically.

[iNow]

Woot! Necro-trolling!!