Mass shooting Las Vegas, Oct. 2. 2017

[Sicarii]

2 hours ago, scherado said:

No. I apologize for the lack of clarity. The no-go zones to which I refer are in Europe and I first heard the term in reference to a few hundred places in France, but there are, as far as I know, some in Britain and Sweden and, possibly Germany and Belgium. I wrote above that if there are some eventually in the USA, the that would mark the time when those who sit around polishing their bullets--not literally, but you get the idea--that will mark the time when the American patriot might get off his armchair. That, I have decided, will be the time that I will abandon what's left of my "supermarket life" and save the country, seriously.

Could you please list the names of places in France, Britain, Sweden, and possibly Germany and Belgium, which are allegedly "no-go" zones? Once we know which places you are talking about, then it will be quite easy to verify your claims.

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, scherado said:

I do not mean that story, though I have not looked at it. How is it I know? The term "no go zones" were first given to the many areas of France that Sharia law supplants French law and law enforcement and fire/rescue might not go. I've never known anyone who has been to one to give an eyewitness account.

As others point out, there are areas of high crime (as in larger country in the world). The part about Sharia law is just ridiculous. Many articles have debunked. If you need an eyewitness account how about that . After Fox news made that claim, there was a spat of youtube videos of French and British folks taking videos of themselves while walking through those areas, some while having beer or bottles of wine with them (in Europe there are no open container laws). 

In Germany there was recently an article that does indeed describe areas that were purposefully created as no-go zones, so-called national befreite Zonen, in which neo-nazis claim control (essentially by beating up anyone not being white enough). Authorities disregard these claims, mostly, I presume because these zones are in areas where there are hardly any foreigners to begin with. More often than not there are just brawls with left youths. Other than massively misrepresenting the situation in major European countries, what is your overall point?

[rangerx]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-bill-o-reilly-calls-mass-shootings-the-1506980448-htmlstory.html

Rightwingnut Bill O'Reilly claims the Vegas massacre is the price of freedom. He left out the life part of life and liberty which flies in the face of the whole "pro-life" nonsense republicans so loudly and often descry. The shooter had rights to guns, but victims accessing healthcare is a handout on the slippery slope to the gulags. Many of the Las Vegas massacre survivors will need to rely upon the healthcare system for the remainder of their lives. A culture of dependency created by the hypocrites who coined the term in the first place.

On one hand Trump EO's a travel ban on some countries under the premise he's proactive in protecting Americans from terrorists shooting down a crowd somewhere. Yet proactive efforts against facilitating domestic evil not so much, or not at all.

Seems to me, the greatest threat to Americans, are other Americans. What was once the 2nd Amendment to prevent tyranny by a corrupt leader has been co-opted as a means for tyrants to corrupt gun control and common laws to decimate their own people.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Strange]

49 minutes ago, CharonY said:

in Europe there are no open container laws

Banning open bottles of beer but allowing them to carry weapons of mass destruction. Makes perfect sense.

[Carrock]

51 minutes ago, CharonY said:

 

In Germany there was recently an article that does indeed describe areas that were purposefully created as no-go zones, so-called national befreite Zonen, in which neo-nazis claim control (essentially by beating up anyone not being white enough).

Citation needed, preferably not Foxisch News.

[rangerx]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

Banning open bottles of beer but allowing them to carry weapons of mass destruction. Makes perfect sense.

Much like Kinder Eggs are banned in the USA.

[John Cuthber]

Just now, Strange said:

Banning open bottles of beer but allowing them to carry weapons of mass destruction. Makes perfect sense.

Because prohibition of alcohol has a success record like no other idea.

 

And, just to bring it back to the topic, the 18th amendment was overturned when they realised it did more harm than good. These amendments can be revoked.
How long for the 2nd amendment?

[Strange]

Just now, John Cuthber said:

And, just to bring it back to the topic, the 18th amendment was overturned when they realised it did more harm than good. These amendments can be revoked.

There do seem to be some who think "but it's in The Constitution therefore it is Right and True, and can never be changed".

[CharonY]

4 minutes ago, Carrock said:

Citation needed, preferably not Foxisch News.

Sure, the article I was referring to was Novotny, 2009: Right-wing extremism and no-go-areas in Germany. I doubt Fox would mention it as according to them there is no relevant right-wing extremism. There are articles from various "Laender" (States equivalent) that contest such characterization and call them "fear areas" (Angst-Raeume), where being afraid of right-wing extremists keeps people away rather than actual potential for violence. That, in turn has been contested by others. Anyway, there are also a couple of books that discuss these concepts in the context of modern radical right movements in Germany from the 90s to today, if you are interested.

 

[Carrock]

28 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Sure, the article I was referring to was Novotny, 2009: Right-wing extremism and no-go-areas in Germany. I doubt Fox would mention it as according to them there is no relevant right-wing extremism. There are articles from various "Laender" (States equivalent) that contest such characterization and call them "fear areas" (Angst-Raeume), where being afraid of right-wing extremists keeps people away rather than actual potential for violence. That, in turn has been contested by others. Anyway, there are also a couple of books that discuss these concepts in the context of modern radical right movements in Germany from the 90s to today, if you are interested.

 

From the abstract of Right-wing Extremism and No-go-areas in Germany 

Quote

The author sets out to examine whether no-go-areas actually exist in Germany, and if they do, to look at how life in them is organised, how they are accepted by majority society, and how these activities are supported (or initiated) by the NPD, a German right-wing extremist party.

Without any actual quotes from you, a brief summary in an appropriate order:

No go areas are described, whether they exist (or are fictitious) is examined and these possibly nonexistent no-go-areas areas are conflated with places tourists who don't want to hang out with neonazis avoid and where crimes are often committed by neonazis. A less glamorous name for such a place is 'high crime area.'

The concept of 'no-go-area' to most people implies that the state (police etc) do not enforce the law in such areas.

Can you provide any specific quotes about anywhere in Germany where that happens?

As I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of media coverage of such 'state within a state' enclaves I'm not interested in what seem to be radical right wish fulfilment concepts.

 

 

 

[rangerx]

In Canada, police protection(RCMP) is provided by the federal government. There exists mechanisms for communities to provide additional funding for more officers to deal with issues unique to that area. If local governments refuse or de-fund additional resources, enforcement is diminished. It's not because gangs prevailed in tactical superiority.

The provinces of Ontario and Quebec fund the OPP and SQ, but the RCMP remains as the lead agency in federal issues.

[Area54]

2 hours ago, rangerx said:

Much like Kinder Eggs are banned in the USA.

WE all know that terrorist plots are hatched from Kinder Eggs.

3 hours ago, Sicarii said:

Could you please list the names of places in France, Britain, Sweden, and possibly Germany and Belgium, which are allegedly "no-go" zones?

The only no-go zone I am intimately familiar with is any toilet facility where I have performed a bowel movement in the recent past. Biochemical warfare eat your heart out!

[MigL]

Eeuwww !

Really ? Toilet humor in a very serious thread ?
( though Scherado seems to have again obliterated any serious discussion )

PS:  I can post  anything I want because I'm on his ignore list, and he can't see my posts.

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, Carrock said:

From the abstract of Right-wing Extremism and No-go-areas in Germany 

Without any actual quotes from you, a brief summary in an appropriate order:

No go areas are described, whether they exist (or are fictitious) is examined and these possibly nonexistent no-go-areas areas are conflated with places tourists who don't want to hang out with neonazis avoid and where crimes are often committed by neonazis. A less glamorous name for such a place is 'high crime area.'

The concept of 'no-go-area' to most people implies that the state (police etc) do not enforce the law in such areas.

Can you provide any specific quotes about anywhere in Germany where that happens?

As I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of media coverage of such 'state within a state' enclaves I'm not interested in what seem to be radical right wish fulfilment concepts.

 

 

 

I should have clarified, the concepts of these areas are quite different than what was described as lawless zones. Rather those National Befreite Zonen are essentially areas where specific people are afraid to go (which is why the State law enforcement refuses to call them No-go Zones but describes them as fear zones instead). In the article they cite that in Brandenburg ~17 such zones may exist. There are official statements from some states that acknowledge or at least discuss these fear zones, which make them a real concept rather than mere fantasy (sources would be in German, however). 

Or to put it in a different context, these areas do not exclude law enforcement, but instead targets very specific types of people (i.e. foreigners and Jews) which is in some ways the opposite concept of the mythical Sharia zones. There, the targeted people are excluded from participating in public activities. Have a look at the article, it provides quite a nuanced view (rather than the more hysteric version one might see in the news.).

Edited October 4, 2017 by CharonY

[Area54]

41 minutes ago, MigL said:

Eeuwww !

Really ? Toilet humor in a very serious thread ?
( though Scherado seems to have again obliterated any serious discussion )

PS:  I can post  anything I want because I'm on his ignore list, and he can't see my posts.

On topic: I find the notion of no go zones ridiculous. I find the readiness of those of a certain political perspective to believe in them disturbing.

Regarding the injection of bawdy humour to an intense discussion: Why did Shakespeare introduce a drunken porter into the Scottish play?

Regarding fishing expeditions: good luck.

[John Cuthber]

4 hours ago, MigL said:

Eeuwww !

Really ? Toilet humor in a very serious thread ?
( though Scherado seems to have again obliterated any serious discussion )

PS:  I can post  anything I want because I'm on his ignore list, and he can't see my posts.

Tha'ts neat!
Can I ask you to post stuff on my behalf?

...

Oops!
 

[scherado]

10 hours ago, rangerx said:

Rightwingnut Bill O'Reilly claims the Vegas massacre is the price of freedom. He left out the life part of life and liberty which flies in the face of the whole "pro-life" nonsense republicans so loudly and often descry. The shooter had rights to guns, but victims accessing healthcare is a handout on the slippery slope to the gulags. Many of the Las Vegas massacre survivors will need to rely upon the healthcare system for the remainder of their lives. A culture of dependency created by the hypocrites who coined the term in the first place.

I have boycotted O'Reilly's show or any other content, written, braille, for at least a decade. That's all I need to reveal about that subject.

10 hours ago, Sicarii said:

Could you please list the names of places in France, Britain, Sweden, and possibly Germany and Belgium, which are allegedly "no-go" zones? Once we know which places you are talking about, then it will be quite easy to verify your claims.

I will start with France, as that is the country about which I first read and heard about the term "no go zone". I will return with that list and you can pursue your refutation.

Here is a quick quote from a muli-part study on the subject, within which you will find the link to the interview with Fabrice Balanche:

Fabrice Balanche, a well-known French Islam scholar who teaches at the University of Lyon, recently told Radio Télévision Suisse: "You have territories in France such as Roubaix, such as northern Marseille, where police will not step foot, where the authority of state is completely absent, where mini Islamic states have been formed."

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

Tha'ts neat!
Can I ask you to post stuff on my behalf?

...

Oops!
 

When I populate my ignore list, I omit some malcontents and otherwise maladjusted ones who deserve to be on it for the simple reason as they perform the valuable service of exposing others who fit the description but are less visible and, secondly, provide reinforcement for my decisions to place the ones already on the list.

You have provided such a service. I thank you.

5 hours ago, CharonY said:

Or to put it in a different context, these areas do not exclude law enforcement, but instead targets very specific types of people (i.e. foreigners and Jews) which is in some ways the opposite concept of the mythical Sharia zones. There, the targeted people are excluded from participating in public activities. Have a look at the article, it provides quite a nuanced view (rather than the more hysteric version one might see in the news.).

Please see my links above in this post. Thanks.

Edited October 4, 2017 by scherado

[Juno]

1 hour ago, scherado said:

I will start with France, as that is the country about which I first read and heard about the term "no go zone". I will return with that list and you can pursue your refutation.

So, given that this started with your suggestion that the UK was on the verge of the breakdown of civil society, do you have any evidence of supposed "no go zones" in the UK?  Cos, you know, those of us who actually live here are telling you that that's not a problem we have here.  

[scherado]

2 minutes ago, Juno said:

So, given that this started with your suggestion that the UK was on the verge of the breakdown of civil society, do you have any evidence of supposed "no go zones" in the UK?  Cos, you know, those of us who actually live here are telling you that that's not a problem we have here.  

UK is on verge of breakdown of civil society no matter whether they have no-go zones Look at the gang-rape obscenities I post about in this thread and the "grooming" gangs.

Edited October 4, 2017 by scherado

[DrP]

Just now, scherado said:

UK is on verge of breakdown of civil society no matter whether they have no-go zones

Where do you get this clap trap from?

 

1 minute ago, scherado said:

Look at the gang-rape obscenities I post about in this thread and the "grooming" gangs.

There have been some sex rings...  there are evil people everywhere - are you saying there are no gang rapes in the USA? What are the comparative figures between the two countries? Would a gang rape even be reported on the news in your violent country? There have been many sex rings closed down.  It is a good thing that we are catching them and closing them.. It will be harder and harder for these people to get away with their shit. You can't tell me there is no rape in the USA...  I am at work so I won't look the figures up.

This obsession with civilisation ending in the world out side of the USA...  Where did that come from? lol.

[Juno]

6 minutes ago, scherado said:

UK is on verge of breakdown of civil society no matter whether they have no-go zones Look at the gang-rape obscenities I post about in this thread and the "grooming" gangs.

The fact that there have been crimes committed in two cities in the UK hardly indicates the country being on the verge of the breakdown of civil society.  As DrP says, every country has evil things happen.  If anything, I'd argue that the fact that over 12,000 people a year are being killed in the US as a result of firearms is more an indication of societal breakdown. 

scherado, have you actually been to the UK?  It's really not as scary a place as the US media is apparently making it sound.

[scherado]

9 minutes ago, DrP said:

...

There have been some sex rings...  there are evil people everywhere - are you saying there are no gang rapes in the USA? ...

There is an entire scandal of the 6000+ victims. "some sex rings" is quite inadequate--I am being kind here. I am so very lucky to not be living in Britain. If my nephews and nieces are required to go to Europe and save the Continent again, then I won't and they won't be so lucky.

10 minutes ago, Juno said:

The fact that there have been crimes committed in two cities in the UK hardly indicates the country being on the verge of the breakdown of civil society. 

Please see my comment to "DrP" just above.

I don't know when the breakdown will occur, I am predicting that the trajectory is that direction and have no calendar entry marked with the predicted date: The trajectory--down the toilet--will proceed if there is no reversal, and I don't predict a reversal, hence I "wrote-off" Britain several years ago.

[DrP]

1 minute ago, scherado said:

There is an entire scandal of the 6000+ victims. "some sex rings" is quite inadequate--I am being kind here. I am so very lucky to not be living in Britain. If my nephews and nieces are required to go to Europe and save the Continent again, then I won't and they won't be so lucky.

6000+....  over how many decades is that figure?    How many comparative crimes in the USA over the same period?

 

[scherado]

30 minutes ago, scherado said:

UK is on verge of breakdown of civil society no matter whether they have no-go zones

There is no exact time associated with "on [the] verge" as it will be a function of the ability of the several resistance groups that are being fought against by those in authority and those not in authority who oppose them, all in Britain.

1 minute ago, DrP said:

6000+....  over how many decades is that figure?    How many comparative crimes in the USA over the same period?

 

Not decades if you do a simple search. I do believe the the start date is possibly 7 years ago. There are ZERO comparative crimes in USA to the best of my knowledge.

Edited October 4, 2017 by scherado

[Juno]

8 minutes ago, scherado said:

There is an entire scandal of the 6000+ victims. "some sex rings" is quite inadequate--I am being kind here. I am so very lucky to not be living in Britain. If my nephews and nieces are required to go to Europe and save the Continent again, then I won't and they won't be so lucky.

Where are you getting this 6000 figure from?  The only place I can see that number in the Birmingham Mail article you linked to is in relation to the number of children who disappeared from care homes, including one who had run away 96 times (so clearly not even 6000 children, let alone 6000 victims of sex rings).

Incidentally, and I'm aware this is only anecdotal, but I work in Birmingham and I can safely say that my colleagues do not live in fear of their children being victims of sex rings - in fact in 11 years working in the city I haven't once heard someone raise this as a concern for their children.