Mass shooting Las Vegas, Oct. 2. 2017

[Airbrush]

Does anyone know if the investigators have reported if Paddock was anti country music?  It should be easy to determine his likes in music from his houses, computers, from his girl friends, and his family.  If he was a country music fan, then that would be very confusing.

Did anyone else listen to the entire 27-minute interview with the brother?  What is your impression of the brother's mannerisms and concerns?  He seems too sympathetic to his wonderful, terrific brother.

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Airbrush

[Ten oz]

8 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

Does anyone know if the investigators have reported if Paddock was anti country music?  It should be easy to determine his likes in music from his houses, computers, from his girl friends, and his family.  If he was a country music fan, then that would be very confusing.

Did anyone else listen to the entire 27-minute interview with the brother?  What is your impression of the brother's mannerisms and concerns?  He seems too sympathetic to his wonderful, terrific brother.

 

Investigators believe Paddock had scouted other venues. Federal investigators are looking into events in Chicago, Boston, and separate event in Las Vegas that took place a week before the massacre. Country music wasn't involved in any of the other events.

[dimreepr]

29 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

Does anyone know if the investigators have reported if Paddock was anti country music?  It should be easy to determine his likes in music from his houses, computers, from his girl friends, and his family.  If he was a country music fan, then that would be very confusing.

Did anyone else listen to the entire 27-minute interview with the brother?  What is your impression of the brother's mannerisms and concerns?  He seems too sympathetic to his wonderful, terrific brother.

2

Does anyone care? Motive after the fact (in a case like this) has no real bearing on the fact that he's dead...

[Area54]

42 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Does anyone care? Motive after the fact (in a case like this) has no real bearing on the fact that he's dead...

I hate that dreadful word "closure", but there is little doubt that many of the survivors and the relatives and friends of those who died will be able to better to come to terms with the events if they know why Paddock thought this was a good idea.

It is also possible that we may gain insights that would help to recognise warning signs and prevent future massacres.

[scherado]

2 hours ago, Area54 said:

How gracious of you.

A provisional reading of these answers reveals the same acerbic, dogmatic, angry style that seems to pervade your posts. Just as a point of information for you: this style inclines readers to think "What a dickhead" and then to ignore what has been written. You're not stupid, so perhaps you are doing this deliberately. Perhaps you want to evoke emotional reactions so you can take an imaginary moral high ground.

Frankly, I don't really care what your motivation is. I will tell you I don't like the end product and if this dialogue is to continue you will post in a polite, measured fashion. If this strikes you as disagreeable I shall just have to think of you as Scarlet.

As to the substance of your replies, I'll allow 24 hours or so to pass in order to wash the  cant content from my memory, and then reply.

Welcome as today's first person to be added to my ignore list. Congratulations. Good luck with your new user name if you chose that option.

Las Vegas investigation focuses on Paddock's finances and travel

As authorities search for a motive, Paddock’s finances have become a significant focal point — most notably, 200-plus casino or wire transactions by Paddock that were flagged for review by FinCEN, the U.S. government’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, which collects data to identify potential money laundering or covert terrorism financing. The FBI is also reviewing transactions by Danley that were flagged by FinCEN. According to a source familiar with the probe, the various transactions date back to 2014 and are being vigorously investigated. The sources said one transaction that has drawn significant attention is a $100,000 transfer to the Philippines by either Paddock or Danley prior to Sunday’s shooting. Danley was in the Philippines when Paddock opened fire on the crowd in Las Vegas.

[Phi for All]

3 minutes ago, scherado said:

Welcome as today's first person to be added to my ignore list. Congratulations. Good luck with your new user name if you chose that option.

!

Moderator Note

You know what? We're done with your off-topic announcements of childish pique. Feel free to use the Ignore system, but the next time you post about it, YOU. ARE. GONE. Report this note if you want, PM me or another staff member if you like, but don't respond here in-thread.

 

[dimreepr]

14 hours ago, Area54 said:

I hate that dreadful word "closure", but there is little doubt that many of the survivors and the relatives and friends of those who died will be able to better to come to terms with the events if they know why Paddock thought this was a good idea.

It is also possible that we may gain insights that would help to recognise warning signs and prevent future massacres.

Good point and I agree but I was replying specifically to Airbrush's speculations based on rumour.

[Area54]

45 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Good point and I agree but I was replying specifically to Airbrush's speculations based on rumour.

Yes, I suspected that was the case, but I felt the point was important enough to make.

What are your thoughts on the claim, from a day or two ago, that the Police Dept.  had followed up 10,000 leads? They have a large police force (5,000) and presumably the FBI and other resources will be involved, but that seemed a suprsingly large number. I partially suspected "creative accounting" to in order to give the impression of progress, but then I have no idea of police procedure that hasn't been corrupted by watching Inspector Murdoch.

[dimreepr]

37 minutes ago, Area54 said:

Yes, I suspected that was the case, but I felt the point was important enough to make.

What are your thoughts on the claim, from a day or two ago, that the Police Dept.  had followed up 10,000 leads? They have a large police force (5,000) and presumably the FBI and other resources will be involved, but that seemed a suprsingly large number. I partially suspected "creative accounting" to in order to give the impression of progress, but then I have no idea of police procedure that hasn't been corrupted by watching Inspector Murdoch.

If "had followed up" is the case then that does seem extremely unlikely, "are following up" is much more believable.

Edited October 8, 2017 by dimreepr

[geordief]

Unusually the police(in their press conference) seemed to be  avowing an  almost complete lack of progress as to motive and were appealing to any witnesses .

 

I feel a picture has to emerge at some point but quite clearly it would be wrong of the police to show their hand too soon.

 

 

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Unusually the police(in their press conference) seemed to be  avowing an  almost complete lack of progress as to motive and were appealing to any witnesses .

 

I feel a picture has to emerge at some point but quite clearly it would be wrong of the police to show their hand too soon.

 

 

I understand what this post is implying? We know who the shooter was, what weapons he used, when he bought them, and etc.We know he had hotel reservations over seeing other venues in Chicago and Boston. We have seen interviews with his brother, store owner where he bought many of his guns, and people in Mesquite where he lived that saw him around town. There is already a Stephen Paddock wikipedia page up listing where he went to school and college, where he has worked, travelled, and etc. In my opinion an enormous amount of information has come out. As much information as could be expected. Unfortunately Stephan Paddock did not leave behind a facebook post explaining his actions. Paddock's motivations may never be fully understood or police ITs might find a deleted email to his brither explaining his actions. Either way it doesn't mean the police are behaving suspicious or doing anything unusual.

[Area54]

4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I understand what this post is implying?  . . . . . . Either way it doesn't mean the police are behaving suspicious or doing anything unusual.

It doesn't seem to be implying anything. Several recent posts have focused on motive. geordief's post focuses on that too, noting - as you agree is the case - that the police have very little idea of motive. I see no hint that geordief thinks the police behaviour is unusual. How did you get that out of his post?

[geordief]

 

20 minutes ago, Area54 said:

It doesn't seem to be implying anything. Several recent posts have focused on motive. geordief's post focuses on that too, noting - as you agree is the case - that the police have very little idea of motive. I see no hint that geordief thinks the police behaviour is unusual. How did you get that out of his post?

You are right. I missed that.I hadn't thought their behaviour was unusual and don't know why it may have come across like that. Was it one of my earlier posts, Ten Oz?

 

btw "I understand what this post is implying?" doesn't parse as it stands,does it?

Edited October 8, 2017 by geordief

[Ten oz]

10 minutes ago, Area54 said:

It doesn't seem to be implying anything. Several recent posts have focused on motive. geordief's post focuses on that too, noting - as you agree is the case - that the police have very little idea of motive. I see no hint that geordief thinks the police behaviour is unusual. How did you get that out of his post?

Unusual how; what are the police doing  that posters keep vaguely implying this without explanation?

 

As for the issue of motive I don't see anything unusual here. At least 10,000 people in the U.S. are murdered every year. We don't understand the motives of 90% of the killers. What was the motives of the Sandy Hook shooter other than he was crazy? Speaking of Sandy Hook  conspiracies popped up that the whole thing was fake. It seems to me that withmany of these large tradegies people over analyze the details and draw odd conclusions.

 

Not only do I think Paddock's motives might never be known I think it is unreasonable to assume they would be.

[geordief]

2 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Unusual how; what are the police doing  that posters keep vaguely implying this without explanation?

 

As for the issue of motive I don't see anything unusual here. At least 10,000 people in the U.S. are murdered every year. We don't understand the motives of 90% of the killers. What was the motives of the Sandy Hook shooter other than he was crazy? Speaking of Sandy Hook  conspiracies popped up that the whole thing was fake. It seems to me that withmany of these large tradegies people over analyze the details and draw odd conclusions.

 

Not only do I think Paddock's motives might never be known I think it is unreasonable to assume they would be.

It is reasonable  to want to know motives in cases like these and to be dissatisfied when no motives are apparent (I am surprised but can accept what you say that many similar attacks have no known motive).

 

That is human nature (and also important for preventative measures,surely).

 

It does not imply any suspicious actions within  the actual investigation.

[Ten oz]

12 minutes ago, geordief said:

It is reasonable  to want to know motives in cases like these and to be dissatisfied when no motives are apparent (I am surprised but can accept what you say that many similar attacks have no known motive).

 

That is human nature (and also important for preventative measures,surely).

 

It does not imply any suspicious actions within  the actual investigation.

It is reasonable to want to know why but it is unreasonable to be dissatisfied about how the investigation is going. A lot has already been revealed in a short period of time. The investigation is producing much as can be reasonably expected.

 

As for preventative measures; for the first time in decades Republicans in Congress finally seem willing to act. That is huge. After Sandy Hook and San Bernardino absolutely nothing was done. Today Congress seems ready to outlaw bump stocks. While outlawing accessories which are designed circumvent the law in the first place seems like a no brainer it is actually a big deal Republicans are for it. It is a big deal because for the first time in my life time Republicans are acknowledging, even if only by default, bad intentions are associated with certian types of firearm purchases. Paddock bought 33 guns in the 12 months before the shooting and it wasn't considered suspicious because there has been an attitude in the U.S. that stockpiling weapons and weapon accessories is perfectly normal behavior (madness). Finally Republicans are acknowledginng that it isn't. That means in the future the FBI, ATF, DHS, and local PDs might actually be able to investigate those who are purchasing exotic accessories. Owning an armory of semi automatic weapons capable of easy convertion into fully automatic weapons might finally be formally (court issued warrants applicable) viewed as suspicious behavior. That is a huge step.

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

We know who the shooter was, what weapons he used, when he bought them, and etc.We know he had hotel reservations over seeing other venues in Chicago and Boston. We have seen interviews with his brother, store owner where he bought many of his guns, and people in Mesquite where he lived that saw him around town.

The scary part being, there are literally tens if not hundreds of thousands that fit that profile. Even a fraction of one percent becoming unhinged and carrying out similar acts is not unlikely in that scenario.

3 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Republicans in Congress finally seem willing to act.

OMG!!! TRUMPS GOING TO TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!

Sorry, I just had to say it.

[Airbrush]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 9:24 AM, Ten oz said:

Investigators believe Paddock had scouted other venues. Federal investigators are looking into events in Chicago, Boston, and separate event in Las Vegas that took place a week before the massacre. Country music wasn't involved in any of the other events.

I'm not sure there is not any commonality in the types of events he was intending to attack.  He looked at the "Life Is Beautiful" event in Las Vegas and Lollapalooza near Chicago.  I'm not sure what kind of music they were playing.  What other kinds of events besides concerts?  Any commonalities at all?  Probably not because we would have heard about it already.   Or is it sensitive info?  Authorities are not willing to discuss what Paddock's escape plan was, but he did have an escape plan.

Gun control is an important subject that should be discussed now.  Banning "bump stocks" is not nearly enough, but a good first step.   The USA should be embarrassed at the numbers of military-style weapons around.

People of the US have been brainwashed by the entertainment industry.  I love "The Walking Dead" TV series, but how many people are buying military weapons to defend against a zombie attack?

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, Area54 said:

....many of the survivors and the relatives and friends of those who died will be able to better to come to terms with the events if they know why Paddock thought this was a good idea.

It is also possible that we may gain insights that would help to recognise warning signs and prevent future massacres.

Exactly!  From the interview with his brother is sounded like the younger brother was ALMOST willing to support his brother's plan.  He got very noticeably, nervous when questioned about his brother's ability to manipulate people.  How to recognize warning signs to prevent future massacres?

I just saw Fareed Zakaria's GPS program about guns in the USA.  It says that half of all guns in the US are owned by 3% of the population.  Anyone see the program and have a reaction to gun control?

Edited October 8, 2017 by Airbrush

[Outrider]

I own 2 rifles and a handgun. The rifles are bolt action which means their not semi automatic and used for hunting not that I ever go these days. The handgun is for defense of me and my family. Because I live in a rural area the last time I called the police it took them over 30 minutes to arrive. 

I am not a member of the NRA because I do support a waiting period which I think would help curb crimes of passion. I also am in favor of background checks and smaller magazines and even more important required training which would reduce accidents.

The only one of those measures that would have helped in this case is smaller magazines.

Gin control is important but understanding and changing our culture are even more important. 

 

7 hours ago, Ten oz said:

 

As for the issue of motive I don't see anything unusual here. At least 10,000 people in the U.S. are murdered every year. We don't understand the motives of 90% of the killers. What was the motives of the Sandy Hook shooter other than he was crazy? Speaking of Sandy Hook  conspiracies popped up that the whole thing was fake. It seems to me that withmany of these large tradegies people over analyze the details and draw odd conclusions.

Which killers?

This fairly long article delves in to the motives of some of the school shooters.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence

It also deals with Mark Granovetter's model of thresholds.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Granovetter

Quote

 

"Tipping points" / threshold modelsEdit

Granovetter has done research on a model of how fads are created. Consider a hypothetical mob assuming that each person's decision whether to riot or not is dependent on what everyone else is doing. Instigators will begin rioting even if no one else is, while others need to see a critical number of trouble makers before they riot, too. This threshold is assumed to be distributed to some probability distribution. The outcomes may diverge largely although the initial condition of threshold may only differ very slightly. 

 

 

If instead you were referring to all the killers I would like to see a citation. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Outrider
I can't spell.

[Ten oz]

27 minutes ago, Outrider said:

Which killers?

This fairly long article delves in to the motives of some of the school shooters.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence

It also deals with Mark Granovetter's model of thresholds.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Granovetter

 

If instead you were referring to all the killers I would like to see a citation. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/clearances

 

14,610 people were killed in 2011 and over 5,000 went unsolved. Amongst those who were found guilt 5% on average plead not guilty. Of those who plead guilty some small percentage are not actually guilty and are later found innocent. Motive is often speculated. A person known to sell drugs gets killed and the motive is assumed to be drug related; that is no guarantee though. We all believe OJ Simpson killed Nicole out of jealousy but we really have no idea why he killed her. Same for Scott Peterson. We all asume he wanted to be with the women he was cheating with and/or didn't want to be a father but we really don't know. We just have ideas we accept. Granovetter's model is a terrific guide but ultimately cannot prove motive in a specific individual case. Only in cases where killers explain why (confesses, leaves manifesto, etc) can we ever really claim we know. Even then mental illness and mood altering medication may still have played a role unbeknownst to the killer themselves.

 

In terms of preventing these things in the future I think it is most important to identify behaviors throughout a persons life than what their final motives may have been. Rather than getting caught up in what finally set off a  Dylann Roof we should be identifying that White Nationalist groups are dangerous. In the case of Stephen Paddock we should be asking ourselves why a man was able to buy 33 guns plus numerous accessories in 12 months without drawing ANY suspicion.

"Men who gamble are more likely to act violently towards others, with the most addicted gamblers the most prone to serious violence. A new study found that gambling in any capacity -- pathological, problem, or so-called casual gambling -- related to significantly increased risk of violence, including domestic abuse. "

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160906103311.htm

[Outrider]

Well yeah I don't "know" I live on a rocky ball flying through outer space but I have the same amount of confidence as I do that O.J. killed Nichole out of jealousy. We may err in our assignment of motive fairly often but we do know why people kill. It's hard for me and you to fathom someone taking a life to make theirs better but we know people do it all the time.

As for the second part Financial Crimes Enforcement Network was looking at him but not for the reasons you stated. He was smart enough to buy his guns at different places. A national registry could help with that.

[Ten oz]

15 minutes ago, Outrider said:

Well yeah I don't "know" I live on a rocky ball flying through outer space but I have the same amount of confidence as I do that O.J. killed Nichole out of jealousy. We may err in our assignment of motive fairly often but we do know why people kill. It's hard for me and you to fathom someone taking a life to make theirs better but we know people do it all the time.

As for the second part Financial Crimes Enforcement Network was looking at him but not for the reasons you stated. He was smart enough to buy his guns at different places. A national registry could help with that.

Really??? I think jealousy is the most likely reason but there may have been another. For all we know it was money related; he didn't want to pay her child support anymore. Money is a very common motive for murder. I see no value in over estimating motives we don't actually know or understand.

[iNow]

3 hours ago, Airbrush said:

I just saw Fareed Zakaria's GPS program about guns in the USA.  It says that half of all guns in the US are owned by 3% of the population.  Anyone see the program and have a reaction to gun control?

Yes, I saw it. About 50% of all US households own at least one gun. That number goes up in rural areas and down in urban areas. Up in republican districts and down in democratic districts. Up in white households and down in minority households  

Also, as you say, 50% of all guns are owned by a tiny fraction of the people... just 3% with veritable arsenals.

Gun control works, but not when you can drive 30 minutes to the neighboring state or to a trade show to circumvent restrictions. It needs to consistent at the federal level and not done state by state. 

The gun death issue is extremely simple to solve on an intellectual level, but seemingly impossible on a political one. 

[beecee]

20 minutes ago, iNow said:

The gun death issue is extremely simple to solve on an intellectual level, but seemingly impossible on a political one. 

Just takes a little bit of intestinal fortitude. Just after our (as in Australia) last mass shooting 21 years ago at Port Arthur Tasmania, we had a Liberal (conservative party) Prime Minister named John Howard, who took the bit between his teeth and commenced the implementation of a gun by back scheme and tough new restrictions and laws on fire arms etc. It worked. We have not had any massacre since that day in 1996.

[Outrider]

18 minutes ago, iNow said:

The gun death issue is extremely simple to solve on an intellectual level, but seemingly impossible on a political one. 

But I really don't think its that easy while gun control certainly will save some lives we also need to change our culture. 

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-have-produced-the-most-serial-killers.html

Quote

The U.S.A. is unmatched among the world's countries with 2,743 serial killers, amounting to 67.41% of the entire world's serial killers on record.

Britan is #2 with 145. Why do we here in the U.S. lead the world in so many violent ways? I think its because we worship violence. Why do I need a video game were I can be an assassin for hire? 

I just see the stockpiling of weapons as a symptom of a larger problem.