What is inner-peace?

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, koti said:

Yes dimreepr, I do. Let me propose something...I will do you the curtesy of trying to excersize your tips and you will try not to put words into my mouth again. Fair enough?

I don't hate you or care that you do or don't take meaning from my words; I'd prefer that you stop fearing and hating what you don't understand, but that's your choice; I can't force you to understand, all I can do is lead you to the oasis.

And suggest you slake your thirst.

[koti]

15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I don't hate you or care that you do or don't take meaning from my words; I'd prefer that you stop fearing and hating what you don't understand, but that's your choice; I can't force you to understand, all I can do is lead you to the oasis.

Here we go again...ffs will you stop acting like some kind of a sect guru?

[dimreepr]

9 minutes ago, koti said:

Here we go again...ffs will you stop acting like some kind of a sect guru?

Why do you care, so much?

Edited November 1, 2017 by dimreepr

[koti]

27 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Why do you care, so much?

Because for months you’ve been feeding me your inner peace, dont hate, be content with yourself crap and now you open a thread asking what inner peace is. I’m just curious weather you are already talking with the bunnies on the other side or just confused. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by koti

[dimreepr]

8 minutes ago, koti said:

Because for months you’ve been feeding me your inner peace, dont hate, be content with yourself crap and now you open a thread asking what inner peace is. I’m just curious weather you are already talking to the bunnies on the other side or just confused. 

Not every rabbit hole leads to wonderland, sometimes you just get dirt in your hare.

[koti]

48 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Not every rabbit hole leads to wonderland, sometimes you just get dirt in your hare.

Fair enough. It looks like you’re not talking with the bunnies after all, good to hear that.

Peace. 

[iNow]

Anger issues are far too common here. I’m reminded of testosterone poisoning. Here are three pages of similarly skewed perspective for the interested reader, perhaps as a case study in what to avoid: 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by iNow

[koti]

32 minutes ago, iNow said:

Anger issues are far too common here. I’m reminded of testosterone poisoning. Here are three pages of similarly skewed perspective for the interested reader, perhaps as a case study in what to avoid: 

 

How sweet of you to bring this up iNow. Why don't you do a case study and share your results with everybody when you're done...in a different thread though as this is off topic here. Hugs.

[zapatos]

4 minutes ago, koti said:

How sweet of you to bring this up iNow. Why don't you do a case study and share your results with everybody when you're done...in a different thread though as this is off topic here. Hugs.

Yes, he should remain on topic like the past dozen or so posts were. Sometimes this place really makes me laugh.

[iNow]

Funny. He personally set the precedent he’s now admonishing me for following: 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Anger has its place, for defense when attacked

Not sure I can agree with this. Anger clouds the mind. When attacked a clear, collected, calm mind is best for proper defense. This is part of why practice and training are so helpful. Less thinking. Less emotion. Just action.

(I’m channeling Bruce Lee apparently).  

Edited November 2, 2017 by iNow

[koti]

15 minutes ago, iNow said:

Funny. He personally set the precedent he’s now admonishing me for following: 

 

While cherry picking my attempt at a sarcastic joke above about you insulting me, you might also want to stop referring to me in the 3rd person while I’m in the conversation. Sir.

As for your remark about anger and Bruce Lee, obviously you’ve never been in a real fight where anger and aggression are one of the most important if not the most important factors giving you an advantage over your oponent.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by koti

[zapatos]

20 minutes ago, koti said:

While cherry picking my attempt at a sarcastic joke above about you insulting me, you might also want to stop referring to me in the 3rd person while I’m in the conversation. Sir.

As for your remark about anger and Bruce Lee, obviously you’ve never been in a real fight where anger and aggression are one of the most important if not the most important factors giving you an advantage over your oponent.

 

 

Any chance we can get a citation? From what I can find it looks like many professional fighters feel that being angry puts them at risk of making mistakes, over committing, etc. Another reason to seek inner peace perhaps.

[iNow]

That’s my understanding as well.

There’s a reason MMA fighters taunt each other. They’re trying to get into the other fighters head. They WANT the opponent angry as that’s when they make mistakes.

Perhaps there are some situations where anger helps, but I suspect Koti is wrong and those are exceptions as opposed to rules.

Having fought quite a bit, I’ll take calm skill and precision over anger and aggression any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays, but YMMV.

The best fighter is never angry. ~Lao Tzu 

[Prometheus]

6 hours ago, zapatos said:

From what I can find it looks like many professional fighters feel that being angry puts them at risk of making mistakes, over committing, etc. Another reason to seek inner peace perhaps.

Interesting turn this conversation has taken.

I remember watching a long interview with Mike Tyson  where he talked at length about how he used anger in his fighting. Recently saw a comment allegedly made by Mohammed Ali  expressing the same opinion - but, you know, the internet has lied to me before. I used to practice a martial art that would encourage anger in fighting, trying to imbue a sense of 'i don't care if you kill me: i'm going to die with my teeth tearing out your carotid artery'. I'm also reminded of the Viking beserkers riling each other up before battle. So using anger has been used effectively by some executing violence.

I switched to another martial art though - i didn't like seeing every other young male as an enemy and the teacher actually encouraged us to get into fights to practice.

 

 

With regards to the OP i'd say it is perfectly fine to feel anger: it is part of the palette of human experience. It is not wrong to feel any emotion, but you can do many different things with them. Don't think Martin Luther King wasn't angry: he just channelled it with supreme skill.

We have the saying 'bravery isn't the absence of fear: it is the presence of fear with the will to go on.'

We could hijack it here, 'equanimity isn't the absence of anger: it is the ability to see clearly in the presence of anger, and to let it go when it ebbs. '

And if nothing else, we would lack some great music if not for anger.

 

6 hours ago, iNow said:

The best fighter is never angry. ~Lao Tzu 

Is that in the Tao Te Ching? What version (it's surprising how different some translations are)?

[koti]

8 hours ago, zapatos said:

Any chance we can get a citation? From what I can find it looks like many professional fighters feel that being angry puts them at risk of making mistakes, over committing, etc. Another reason to seek inner peace perhaps.

 

7 hours ago, iNow said:

That’s my understanding as well.

There’s a reason MMA fighters taunt each other. They’re trying to get into the other fighters head. They WANT the opponent angry as that’s when they make mistakes.

Perhaps there are some situations where anger helps, but I suspect Koti is wrong and those are exceptions as opposed to rules.

Having fought quite a bit, I’ll take calm skill and precision over anger and aggression any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays, but YMMV.

The best fighter is never angry. ~Lao Tzu 

Boxing, MMA and other sports have little to do with a real fight (although MMA is probably the closest) and even there in MMA, anger (properly channeled ofcourse) and agression is a key factor. Combat fighting systems like the israeli Krav Maga or rusian Systema teach that agression takes an important role in a real fight situation. Ofcourse one can argue that anger is not necessary for agression to be there, I gusess this could be trained but the bottom line is that sports have little to do fighting an enemy or even a street fight.

[dimreepr]

16 hours ago, koti said:

Fair enough. It looks like you’re not talking with the bunnies after all, good to hear that.

Peace. 

I was referring to hole you're currently inhabiting because the rabbit hole I dived into did lead to wonderland; no dirt in my hare.

5 hours ago, Prometheus said:

Interesting turn this conversation has taken.

I remember watching a long interview with Mike Tyson  where he talked at length about how he used anger in his fighting. Recently saw a comment allegedly made by Mohammed Ali  expressing the same opinion - but, you know, the internet has lied to me before. I used to practice a martial art that would encourage anger in fighting, trying to imbue a sense of 'i don't care if you kill me: i'm going to die with my teeth tearing out your carotid artery'. I'm also reminded of the Viking beserkers riling each other up before battle. So using anger has been used effectively by some executing violence.

I switched to another martial art though - i didn't like seeing every other young male as an enemy and the teacher actually encouraged us to get into fights to practice.

 

 

With regards to the OP i'd say it is perfectly fine to feel anger: it is part of the palette of human experience. It is not wrong to feel any emotion, but you can do many different things with them. Don't think Martin Luther King wasn't angry: he just channelled it with supreme skill.

We have the saying 'bravery isn't the absence of fear: it is the presence of fear with the will to go on.'

We could hijack it here, 'equanimity isn't the absence of anger: it is the ability to see clearly in the presence of anger, and to let it go when it ebbs. '

And if nothing else, we would lack some great music if not for anger.

 

Is that in the Tao Te Ching? What version (it's surprising how different some translations are)?

Thank you, an excellent post (If I could it would more than just +1), for explaining my point so eloquently. 

 

13 hours ago, iNow said:

That’s my understanding as well.

There’s a reason MMA fighters taunt each other. They’re trying to get into the other fighters head. They WANT the opponent angry as that’s when they make mistakes.

Perhaps there are some situations where anger helps, but I suspect Koti is wrong and those are exceptions as opposed to rules.

Having fought quite a bit, I’ll take calm skill and precision over anger and aggression any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays, but YMMV.

The best fighter is never angry. ~Lao Tzu 

I can add nothing to Prometheus' rebuttal other than, the overwhelming percentage of the population is not a professional fighter and will get angry when punched in the face. 

[koti]

6 hours ago, Prometheus said:

Interesting turn this conversation has taken.

I remember watching a long interview with Mike Tyson  where he talked at length about how he used anger in his fighting. Recently saw a comment allegedly made by Mohammed Ali  expressing the same opinion - but, you know, the internet has lied to me before. I used to practice a martial art that would encourage anger in fighting, trying to imbue a sense of 'i don't care if you kill me: i'm going to die with my teeth tearing out your carotid artery'. I'm also reminded of the Viking beserkers riling each other up before battle. So using anger has been used effectively by some executing violence.

I switched to another martial art though - i didn't like seeing every other young male as an enemy and the teacher actually encouraged us to get into fights to practice.

 

 

With regards to the OP i'd say it is perfectly fine to feel anger: it is part of the palette of human experience. It is not wrong to feel any emotion, but you can do many different things with them. Don't think Martin Luther King wasn't angry: he just channelled it with supreme skill.

We have the saying 'bravery isn't the absence of fear: it is the presence of fear with the will to go on.'

We could hijack it here, 'equanimity isn't the absence of anger: it is the ability to see clearly in the presence of anger, and to let it go when it ebbs. '

And if nothing else, we would lack some great music if not for anger.

 

Is that in the Tao Te Ching? What version (it's surprising how different some translations are)?

Good points Prometheus. I agree with everything, +1.

I’m not even going to pick up on the claim that what you have writen is inline with what dimreepr wrote in this thread so far. 

[DrP]

27 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

 the overwhelming percentage of the population is not a professional fighter and will get angry when punched in the face. 

... or frightened, or depressed, or unconscious, or hurt, or dead.   ;-)

I think anger needs to be controlled in a fight...  it can help with aggression, but as pointed out - mistakes can be made through not thinking clearly.  Fights can go any way...  to the calm or the angry... to the skilful or the lucky.

 

[bimbo36]

When i accomplished my goals i had inner peace .

For example ,

When i was finally able to built a dynamic website of my own

When i follow assembly language with SASM IDE , when i don't have anything else to do

When i finally managed to understand differential equations

When i started doing a commerce degree after failing for math in my computer science degree .

Right now i have very less inner peace because after working till evening i am still studying for my commerce degree .

Someday , after completing my distance education commerce degree i might have more inner peace .

[dimreepr]

27 minutes ago, DrP said:

... or frightened, or depressed, or unconscious, or hurt, or dead.   ;-)

I think anger needs to be controlled in a fight...  it can help with aggression, but as pointed out - mistakes can be made through not thinking clearly.  Fights can go any way...  to the calm or the angry... to the skilful or the lucky.

2

Not really the point but you can be angry and frightened/depressed; unconscious/hurt/dead isn't relevant.

22 minutes ago, bimbo36 said:

When i accomplished my goals i had inner peace .

For example ,

When i was finally able to built a dynamic website of my own

When i follow assembly language with SASM IDE , when i don't have anything else to do

When i finally managed to understand differential equations

When i started doing a commerce degree after failing for math in my computer science degree .

Right now i have very less inner peace because after working till evening i am still studying for my commerce degree .

Someday , after completing my distance education commerce degree i might have more inner peace .

You're looking in the wrong place because when you do achieve your goals you'll have less, not more.

It's like reading a good book, you grieve when it ends.

[iNow]

8 hours ago, koti said:

Boxing, MMA and other sports have little to do with a real fight (although MMA is probably the closest) and even there in MMA, anger (properly channeled ofcourse) and agression is a key factor. Combat fighting systems like the israeli Krav Maga or rusian Systema teach that agression takes an important role in a real fight situation. Ofcourse one can argue that anger is not necessary for agression to be there, I gusess this could be trained but the bottom line is that sports have little to do fighting an enemy or even a street fight.

And no where did I say sports were equivalent to fighting, so there's no need to further chase this red herring or strawman. In that post, the MMA comment was offered as an example to reinforce a point. It was not an assertion of sameness, though I agree MMA is quite close.

In context of these posts on the subject of fighting, I feel most people here are mistakenly conflating adrenaline and cortisol and heightened responsiveness / improved reaction times and increased power with anger. These, however, are very much NOT the same thing. Also, they can very much hinder your ability to respond if not properly controlled and focused. 

Anger is a cloud, often tied to those other important physiological responses, but it is not the source of them. Their source is unconscious, and anger IMO merely a label placed on top of them to explain our conscious awareness of them.

More broadly, anger wastes energy. It does not focus it. If one is afraid or untrained, perhaps it can help, but even then it's still the adrenaline and cortisol doing most of the work. Regardless... Let's move on since folks may disagree, and that's hardly the point. Let's look at this another way.

Koti - When you're replying to me on this forum, do you feel your best and most impactful responses come when you are calm or when you are angry? Let's focus there. I can tell you from my perspective (and likely the perspective of many others here) that the answer to this is painfully obvious, but perhaps you will have another perspective to offer.

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by iNow

[koti]

3 hours ago, iNow said:

And no where did I say sports were equivalent to fighting, so there's no need to further chase this red herring or strawman. In that post, the MMA comment was offered as an example to reinforce a point. It was not an assertion of sameness, though I agree MMA is quite close.

In context of these posts on the subject of fighting, I feel most people here are mistakenly conflating adrenaline and cortisol and heightened responsiveness / improved reaction times and increased power with anger. These, however, are very much NOT the same thing. Also, they can very much hinder your ability to respond if not properly controlled and focused. 

Anger is a cloud, often tied to those other important physiological responses, but it is not the source of them. Their source is unconscious, and anger IMO merely a label placed on top of them to explain our conscious awareness of them.

More broadly, anger wastes energy. It does not focus it. If one is afraid or untrained, perhaps it can help, but even then it's still the adrenaline and cortisol doing most of the work. Regardless... Let's move on since folks may disagree, and that's hardly the point. Let's look at this another way.

Koti - When you're replying to me on this forum, do you feel your best and most impactful responses come when you are calm or when you are angry? Let's focus there. I can tell you from my perspective (and likely the perspective of many others here) that the answer to this is painfully obvious, but perhaps you will have another perspective to offer.

 

No worries iNow, I'm not chasing nor am I going to chase what you have not asserted, I'm just expressing my opinion - no need to label that post as red herring or strawman. As for your opinion on anger, I think I can agree with mostly everything you said with the exception that you are not taking into account what happens to your oponent when he's faced with ruthless aggression/anger. Breaking ones mentality in a fight by seeding fear will render the fight most likely won. This is a science forum not a Krav Maga or Sambo course though so let's just leave it there. Besides, this is a 180 degree deviation from the inner-peace topic and I don't want dimreepr to enter his mode of telling me to get rid of my hate again or even going further by wanting to lead me to an oasis - I certainly wouldn't want to find out what happens after the oasis level. 

iNow, when replying to you (or to anyone else) on this forum, I don't see my replies as best or worst or more or less impactful...I try to concentrate on speaking my mind and being as coherent and logical as I can (or ironic/sarcastic from time to time like above) You don't have to convince me that a calm, clear mind is capable of more coherent discussion than an angry and confused mind - we are in agreement on this. I also do not need to be convinced that the regulars and the mental vibe projected by this forum are biased towards certain lines of thought on politics and religion. I am sad to say that I am not alone in this opinion and valuable people have stopped posting here because of this very reason. As much as you are disappointed in me getting angry at certain things and not posting to my full potential due to my mind being clouded by emotion, I am equally disappointed in you and the regulars for your inability to look at things from a broader view point - this is partially about the Trump thread going south to the point of it having to be locked but also about other threads which I wasn't participating in, just lurking in.

Having this off my chest (my fear of dimreepr leading me to an "oasis") I would like to end this post by apologizing to you iNow - I'm sory that you called me a dick in that Trump thread. In the future, I will do my best to control my posts in such a way that I get as many up votes as possible and most importantly I shall not deviate from a fixed attitude that the regulars accept in these kinds of threads...so you don't have to call me a dick anymore.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, koti said:

you are not taking into account what happens to your oponent when he's faced with ruthless aggression/anger. Breaking ones mentality in a fight by seeding fear will render the fight most likely won.

Tying this back to the topic and offering an alternative perspective: a person who is inwardly peaceful is much less likely to “break their mentality” or feel fear when approached with aggression in the way you cite. They’re also much more likely to de-escalate situations before violence becomes likely. 

2 hours ago, koti said:

I am equally disappointed in you and the regulars for your inability to look at things from a broader view point

I frequently do look at things from a broader viewpoint, but TBH often find them rather lacking. That said, I frequently have and do often change my mind when presented with a convincing case. It’s just too bad so few people who disagree with me in politics seem capable of making one. 

[dimreepr]

13 hours ago, iNow said:

Tying this back to the topic and offering an alternative perspective: a person who is inwardly peaceful is much less likely to “break their mentality” or feel fear when approached with aggression in the way you cite.  

 

Indeed, but not necessarily due to peaceful innards, understanding that our fellow's failings are also our own gives an insight into the potential behaviour of others.

14 hours ago, iNow said:

They’re also much more likely to de-escalate situations before violence becomes likely. 

 

On 02/11/2017 at 1:03 AM, iNow said:

(I’m channeling Bruce Lee apparently).  

Indeed, the art of fighting without fighting...

 

17 hours ago, koti said:

Besides, this is a 180 degree deviation from the inner-peace topic and I don't want dimreepr to enter his mode of telling me to get rid of my hate again or even going further by wanting to lead me to an oasis - I certainly wouldn't want to find out what happens after the oasis level. 

2

What makes you think there's a deviation from the topic of this thread and why are you so afraid of the next level?

[koti]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

...understanding that our fellow's failings are also our own gives an insight into the potential behaviour of others.

I wonder...can you be less condescending than this or is there really no limit and you never run out of bullets?

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What makes you think there's a deviation from the topic of this thread and why are you so afraid of the next level?

I guess a discussion about fighting to win at whatever cost might have some indirect merit in the context of inner-peace. As for me being afraid of the „next level” after you take me to the „oasis” was a joke dimreepr.