What is inner-peace?

[koti]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 

Ther’s nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your fellow self.

I don’t know dim, it’s like we’re out of sync. It’s not that I don’t agree with you on the above obviousness because I do. It’s the context and how you throw in these „noble wisdoms of life” like someone would do on a Jehova convention (if something like that exists, I hope not)

Edited November 6, 2017 by koti

[Outrider]

5 hours ago, Prometheus said:

Yes, and i think your interpretation is the more common one. But to my mind that kind of inner peace is just another emotion - or maybe a lack of certain 'negative' emotions. Inner peace isn't itself an emotion or lack thereof, but a way of relating to emotions and experiences.

Lets try this. 

For me inner peace is a state of mind I prefer in most (not all) situations.

For you inner peace is a quality that allows you to be ok with being mad or sad or disappointed? Maybe we could use content instead of  "be ok with"?

In any case we may just have to agree to disagree and I'm ok with that. But I will never be ok with anger or grief. I have accepted that I cannot control the situations that will surely bring these emotions but I will rage against them anyway. 

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

A spoilt child suffers, just a little differently to an abused child.

A spoilt child is an abused child so I don't know what you are on about either.

But this I like:

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

One needs to understand/recognise the illusion of time and the illusion of control first, then get to grips with the difference between, needs and wants and expecting and accepting not to mention understanding the torment of the greedy and bully (karma) and finally understand/recognise the fact that we aren't unique, just clones.

Ok I don't agree with the illusion of time part. Time is very real. And I really dont agree with us being clones I think we are all unique.

But yes we have very little control and it is a good thing to recognize and acknowledge. The only thing we can control is ourselves and many times even that ain't easy. Like any muscle control over oneself can be exercised and this can lead to better wellbeing. 

As for expectations well if I don't expect anything out of you I won't be disappointed. But as a fellow member of the human race I do have expectations for you. 

[Prometheus]

1 hour ago, Outrider said:

Lets try this. 

For me inner peace is a state of mind I prefer in most (not all) situations.

For you inner peace is a quality that allows you to be ok with being mad or sad or disappointed? Maybe we could use content instead of  "be ok with"?

 Describing it is kind of like trying to tell someone how to ride a bike so that's probably as close as i can convey.

 

1 hour ago, Outrider said:

In any case we may just have to agree to disagree and I'm ok with that. But I will never be ok with anger or grief. I have accepted that I cannot control the situations that will surely bring these emotions but I will rage against them anyway. 

Imagine how empty your life would have to be to never feel grief or anger.

I once received some wisdom from a Bodhisattva who put it quite well, let me see if i can find it. Ah, yes the great sage Butters:

 

 

Happy to disagree too. If all roads lead to Rome i'll see you when we get there.

[koti]

28 minutes ago, Prometheus said:

 

Imagine how empty your life would have to be to never feel grief or anger.

 

Exactly. Plus imagine the kind of „inner-peace” it leads to.

[dimreepr]

17 hours ago, koti said:

Nice, didn’t notice that in the new forum.

 

You can't, I did it for you hence "strangely" as we seldom agree. I should have explained sorry. 

17 hours ago, koti said:

As for the spoiled/abused child thing I don’t get it dimreepr. I prefer not to get it because if is what I think it is my inner peace will fluctuate again. 

It was an attempt (obviously a poor one) at illustrating Prometheus' post.

12 hours ago, Outrider said:

Ok I don't agree with the illusion of time part. Time is very real. 

1

Time is real it's the way we think about it that seems to confuse people. Yesterday and tomorrow literally don't exist (not to mention lunch-time) yet we spend so much of our 'time' concerned about them whilst ignoring what does exist, now.

12 hours ago, Outrider said:

And I really dont agree with us being clones I think we are all unique.

Herrings are all unique, yet they all look the same and behave the same. My point is, it's this human conceit that bars humility and therefore a roadblock to Rome.

 

[dimreepr]

17 hours ago, Outrider said:

But yes we have very little control and it is a good thing to recognize and acknowledge. The only thing we can control is ourselves and many times even that ain't easy. Like any muscle control over oneself can be exercised and this can lead to better wellbeing. 

 

Again you've missed my point, we have no more control over ourselves than we do others; our environment and diet has a major effect on our moods and behaviour (iNow can explain it in far more detail). You talk about controlling your anger when you really mean suppressing it, you still feel the anger however large the controlling muscle; this approach leads to torment, not peace, because however good you are at not showing it, you know you still feel it and if control is your bag, you won't forgive yourself when you can't.

17 hours ago, Outrider said:

As for expectations well if I don't expect anything out of you I won't be disappointed. But as a fellow member of the human race I do have expectations for you. 

1

You'll have to explain this one.

Edited November 7, 2017 by dimreepr

[zapatos]

4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Again you've missed my point, we have no more control over ourselves than we do others;

That is patently false and easily proven so. You should add the appropriate qualifiers when you make these statements.

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, zapatos said:

That is patently false and easily proven so. You should add the appropriate qualifiers when you make these statements.

I thought I had, but to further clarify; how much control do you have over your culture or your ability to imbibe alcohol? Do you deny that both have an influence on your thinking/decision-making/control?

You can control where you plant a seed but not what it will grow into.

[zapatos]

Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, I have complete control over my ability to imbibe alcohol, but no ability to control your use of alcohol.

Alcohol and culture have influence over me, however I can take steps to limit that influence for myself but not for you.

Hence, I have more control over myself than I do others.

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Hence, I have more control over myself than I do others.

 

Ok, I see your point, but it only muddies the waters in the context of this thread.

 

[zapatos]

Well, one of us is muddying the water here but I'm not sure it is me. Can you provide an example where I have no more control over myself than I do of you?

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Well, one of us is muddying the water here but I'm not sure it is me. Can you provide an example where I have no more control over myself than I do of you?

I've already conceded this point, what I don't concede is that you have ultimate control of yourself and that's why you're muddying the waters here.

[zapatos]

Can you please show me where I muddied the waters by claiming in any way to have "ultimate control of myself"?

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

Can you please show me where I muddied the waters by claiming in any way to have "ultimate control of myself"?

The topic is inner-peace and the start of this tangent is my claim that control is illusory, yes you're correct, in that my subsequent reply is technically/pedantically false, that doesn't, given the context, make the premise false. 

[koti]

Okay dimreepr, in the light of one of your posts above which I agree with that true nobleness comes from being superior to your true self, let me share this with you from the bottom of my heart despite your non inner-peaceful suggestion that I should not post any more. I also forgive you for this moment of weakness (you’re gonna have to live with my sneers) 

From what I’ve had experience with you in many threads on this forum, you are convinced that I am incapable of achieving  inner peace due to my explosive character, anger, sneers, etc. It seems you are convinced that I am just tormenting myself when in fact, the true torment would be for me to go your „get rid of anger”  „Jehova Convention” route. A state of inner peace is both subjective and momentary, don’t fool yourself that you will achieve a constant state of inner-peace, it’s impossibe due to the simple fact that once you achieve that state and be in it for long enough, you would no longer have a point of reference for deciding wether you are still at an inner-peace state or not. Unless you believe ofcourse, that you will spend your life in a B class Chinese movie from the 80’s levitating 2 feet above the ground above a pond. 

[dimreepr]

10 minutes ago, koti said:

Okay dimreepr, in the light of one of your posts above which I agree with that true nobleness comes from being superior to your true self,

1

Yet again you misunderstand, "true nobility is being superior to your former self". Not your version.

15 minutes ago, koti said:

(you’re gonna have to live with my sneers) 

Clearly, but you should at least explain why.

23 minutes ago, koti said:

It seems you are convinced that I am just tormenting myself when in fact, the true torment would be for me to go your „get rid of anger”  „Jehova Convention” route.

Ahh yes, I see, you hate religion; enough said...

in case you missed it, I'm an atheist; or do you hate those as well?

[koti]

22 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Yet again you misunderstand, "true nobility is being superior to your former self". Not your version.

Clearly, but you should at least explain why.

Ahh yes, I see, you hate religion; enough said...

in case you missed it, I'm an atheist; or do you hate those as well?

This is not about religion, „Jehova Convention” in my posts is a figure of speach meant to emphasize your way of aproaching who should do what in order to achieve inner-peace and my opinion on that aproach.

[dimreepr]

Knock yourself out

6 minutes ago, koti said:

This is not about religion

 

Since you're the only one that suggests otherwise, complete bollox.

[koti]

18 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Knock yourself out

Since you're the only one that suggests otherwise, complete bollox.

I give up man. You have yourself a good rest of the day and I mean that sincerely.

[Outrider]

19 hours ago, Prometheus said:

Imagine how empty your life would have to be to never feel grief or anger.

Thats impossible I am just trying to minimize it.

19 hours ago, Prometheus said:

If all roads lead to Rome i'll see you when we get there.

I am looking forward to it!

 

3 hours ago, zapatos said:

Well, one of us is muddying the water here but I'm not sure it is me. 

It's not you.

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Again you've missed my point, we have no more control over ourselves than we do others;

Of course we do.

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

our environment

I have the air conditioning running right now.

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

and diet has a major effect on our moods and behaviour (iNow can explain it in far more detail).

I choose what I consume I am lucky that way not everyone has the same choices I do.

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

You talk about controlling your anger when you really mean suppressing it, you still feel the anger

No I don't feel the anger. I agree that suppressing emotions is a very bad thing but suppression and control are two very different things. So anytime you see something happen to another that would make you mad and they don't you assume they are suppressing? Maybe they just have a different perspective. That is what control is all about gaining better perspectives. When I am driving and someone cuts me off I can get mad or just bump the brake and let them go. It's my choice. But what if it makes me late to work then I should get mad? Not really I could have left the house earlier. In fact that is an actual strategy by me to cut down on situations that cause me stress. I'm usually 20 to 30 minutes early to work. 

If someone says I'm wrong I can choose to get mad or I can choose to investigate the claim. If they call me a name I can get mad or I can choose to pity them for their small vocabulary. 

I can't avoid anger in every situation nor do I want to but I have become fairly skilled at minimizing it and I think that has enriched my life.

The point about expectations is if you have none you will never be disappointed but I think expectations are a good thing. However many people set them to high. I need to keep my expectations reasonable and realistic. 

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

what I don't concede is that you have ultimate control of yourself

No one here has claimed this.

[dimreepr]

19 hours ago, Outrider said:

It's not you.

Of course we do.

1

Ok yes, it was me that muddied the water with my unfortunate turn of phrase, zapatos has called me out on it with an explanation; you're just piggybacking in order to discredit my point, intellectually dishonest given my replies to him, that you've ignored.

19 hours ago, Outrider said:

No I don't feel the anger.

 

19 hours ago, Outrider said:

I can't avoid anger in every situation

Which is it?

19 hours ago, Outrider said:

I have the air conditioning running right now.

I realise you're 'trying' to make a joke, but your only able to do this because of your cultural environment which you have no control of; it's ironic that your limited choices are buggering up the environment for everyone else. 

20 hours ago, Outrider said:

The point about expectations is if you have none you will never be disappointed but I think expectations are a good thing. However many people set them to high. I need to keep my expectations reasonable and realistic. 

It doesn't matter what level of expectation you have, it's how you react when they aren't met:

Quote

The difference between expecting and accepting

 

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Ok yes, it was me that muddied the water with my unfortunate turn of phrase, zapatos has called me out on it with an explanation; you're just piggybacking in order to discredit my point, intellectually dishonest given my replies to him, that you've ignored.

Well, you never did concede the point though, which I think is what we are getting at here.

You simply stated that I caught you on a technicality that would make your unfortunately worded point incorrect if I wanted to be pedantic about it, but continued to stress that you were fundamentally right and we were just taking things out of context.

Bottom line is you think we don't really have any control over ourselves, and we think we do.

[dimreepr]

17 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Bottom line is you think we don't really have any control over ourselves, and we think we do.

 

 

On 07/11/2017 at 2:23 PM, dimreepr said:

how much control do you have over your culture or your ability to imbibe alcohol?

 

[iNow]

21 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Bottom line is you think we don't really have any control over ourselves, and we think we do.

This gets into fascinating territory, the cross-section of neuroscience and freewill (or the likely lack thereof).

[Outrider]

Tell you what dimreepr I'm just going to leave the muddy waters behind. If I have done anything to offend please forgive me. 

I believe that both you and me have some measure of control over our own physical bodies and also our intellect that is our thoughts, moods and emotions? Do you agree? If not why?

I believe that by exercising my control over myself I can increase (yet never master) that control. Do you agree? If not why?

I believe that gaining better control over my thoughts, moods and emotions is a very important (not the only one) component in the road toward inner peace. Do you agree? If not why?

I also believe I have proved this to myself in my own life and am trying to pass it on. All the while listening to the other commenters hoping to gain new insight. Wimning the argument is trival for me. If I learn and you learn that is more than enough satisfaction. 

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I realise you're 'trying' to make a joke, but your only able to do this because of your cultural environment which you have no control of; it's ironic that your limited choices are buggering up the environment for everyone else. 

Yeah I was trying to be funny and make a point at the same time. I'll not make the same mistake again.

When a bird builds a nest it is taking some measure of control over it's environment. When a colony of ants builds a hill it is likewise taking some control. And while I my not have the skills to build an a.c. unit from scratch much less build and maintain a power grid to run that unit by myself. With the help and cooperation of my fellow human beings I can. And yes I have a very small bit of control over that process as well. I can pay the power bill or not.

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Which is it?

This shows I did a really bad job of explaining myself, sorry about that.

 

On 11/7/2017 at 8:07 AM, dimreepr said:

You talk about controlling your anger when you really mean suppressing it, you still feel the anger

No I really don't feel the anger at all when I am in control of my emotions. When I am not in control I do feel the anger and in some situations I suppress it. I don't  think it is always a good thing to express our emotions in the heat of the moment depends on the situation. 

Control of emotion and suppression of emotion are two different things. Do you agree? If not why?

 So anytime you see something happen to another that would make you mad and they don't get mad do you assume they are suppressing?