Ignition via water (not working)

[Elite Engineer]

By mixing ammonium nitrate, sodium chloride, and zinc powder, and adding water, you can cause the mixture to ignite. 

However, I've tried this experiment, with different protocols (see below), and it still doesn't ignite with the addition of water.

 

Reworked protocols:

-Ground up ammonium nitrate from from cold packs. Ground up NaCl. Mixed nitrate, salt and zinc powder thoroughly. Added water, no reaction.

-Ground up ammonium nitrate and NaCl together.  Added salt mixture to zinc powder. Mixed thoroughly. Added water, no reaction. 

-Ground up ammonium nitrate and KCl together. Added salt mixture to zinc powder. Mixed thoroughly. Added water, no reaction. 

 

This is making me go insane, because I've seen people make this reaction work under the same conditions.

 

Any thoughts?

~EE

 

[koti]

I’m as much of a chemist as your average cat is a philosopher. Having said that, are you 100% sure that the compounds you are using are what they are?

[Elite Engineer]

I thought about this too, but unfortunately all the materials are correct. 

• Ammonium nitrate is sourced from cold packs,
• salt is regular table salt  
• zinc powder I bought as an ingot and ground it into a powder using a dremmel tool.

 

I really can't get my mind around this. 

[koti]

As this Im sure falls into the dangerous substance category maybe try PM’ing Hypervalent Iodine or John Cuthber, Im sure both of them will be able to help you out. 

[Endy0816]

Cold pack might be something else. All I can think of.

[John Cuthber]

Not all cold packs use ammonium nitrate, some use urea (Other's might be possible too)

If you try to light the mixture with a match, what happens?

[Sensei]

Chemicals that lead to ignition after adding water, very often are producing gaseous Hydrogen (water molecule is split to gaseous Hydrogen and Oxygen). Then Hydrogen gas is exploding after contact with fire (and there is presence of enough amount of Oxygen).

 

Try taking what you have in cold pack, and what you think is ammonium nitrate, and mix it with sugar. If it's ammonium nitrate, you will have similar result as this one:

 

 

[John Cuthber]

23 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Chemicals that lead to ignition after adding water, very often are producing gaseous Hydrogen (water molecule is split to gaseous Hydrogen and Oxygen). Then Hydrogen gas is exploding after contact with fire (and there is presence of enough amount of Oxygen).

Plenty of things give hydrogen without catching fire, so the interesting question is what ignites it?

 

[Elite Engineer]

I don't have any more AN, so I gave in and purchased some from a chemical supplier. This is weird though, because I've been using AN from cold packs really since 2012. 

Just now they decided to change to a urea substitute? IMO they should have done that after the OKC bombing but whatever. 

 

Thanks all for your help!

[Elite Engineer]

UPDATE:

I got the reaction to work, and thought I'd share the results for anyone else trying to get this to work:

I purchased ammonium nitrate online, and then mixed the components together (salt + NH4NO3). Added the zinc, added a few drops of water and NOTHING!

I made two more preps and still crap. Finally, I'd had it. I bought industry grade zinc dust. The zinc I had before was ground up by me with a dremmel tool,

so it was fairly flaky and solid still, but nonetheless very small, so I didn't think twice about it. The new purchased zinc dust was as soft as talcum powder...VERY VERY FINE texture.

 

I mix the reagents once more, add a drop of water and boom it ignites. 

hope this helps anyone in the future. 

[John Cuthber]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:17 AM, Elite Engineer said:

IMO they should have done that after the OKC bombing but whatever. 

That makes exactly as much sense as saying they should have arrested him before he set off the bomb.

 

There is also some irony to the idea that you  seem to thing that you should be allowed to busy stuff that's a potentially dangerous oxidising agent, but other people shouldn't be.

[Endy0816]

We do laws on the books now as a result. Mostly involves tracking large purchases though.

DHS is working on additional regulations as well.

https://www.dhs.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-program-notice-proposed-rulemaking

 

[Elite Engineer]

I did about 3lbs  AN online, for about $12...no problem. I'd imagine I'm on some sort of watchlist.. I have so much I don't even know what to do with it. 

Guess I'll start gardening then.