Al Franken's funniest moment

[rangerx]

52 minutes ago, waitforufo said:

 I'm surprised anyone would think Al's hovering fingers somehow make this better.  Yes they were hovering at the moment of the snap.  What about before or after?  Even if there was no contact Al thought it was appropriate to sexually objectify a woman while she was sleeping knowing that those photographs would be shared with the USO team after their tour.  Down right creepy if you ask me.  How would you feel if this was done to you or someone you love?  

 

13 hours ago, rangerx said:

Yes. A pattern of harassment can be inferred, especially if you put her backstage account together with the antics in the photograph.

As per usual, your reading comprehension leaves little to be desired.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, waitforufo said:

iNow, What will the ethics committee investigate at the request of Al Franken?  I'm not sure.  I think it has something to do with  the following story and photograph.

!

Moderator Note

IOW, all you are doing is posting to stir things up. That's not acceptable. If you can't discuss in good faith, don't discuss at all.

 

[waitforufo]

19 minutes ago, rangerx said:

As per usual, your reading comprehension leaves little to be desired.

So why post the image of the close up at all? 

[rangerx]

8 minutes ago, waitforufo said:

So why post the image of the close up at all? 

Because there's a considerable difference between sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Is the part were you conflate the discussion to tell me that I think the former is perfectly acceptable because it's not the latter?

 

[John Cuthber]

20 hours ago, waitforufo said:

Just look at the expression on his face.

Yes, you can see that he's having a joke.

Or do you really not understand that people grin when they are messing about.

Obviously, what he dis was wrong on a number of levels, but it's not what you are trying to pretend.

 

59 minutes ago, waitforufo said:

So why post the image of the close up at all? 

To show that your tacit assertion was false.

[Outrider]

18 hours ago, rangerx said:

What Franken did is dwarfed by the accusations leveled at your president and a sexually deviant republican judge who preys on teenage impressionables

This why we continue to elect turds to political offices. You and others believe ones actions can be "dwarfed" by others actions. Yes what DT and RM did was worse but that does not lessen the impact of what AF did. If I rape one girl and you rape fifty I'm not so bad? You could have shut waitforufo down early on by just admitting AF's actions were deplorable and left it at that. This would have garnered much respect from me and probably plenty of lurkers well. On the bright side some of the leading democrats seem to be handling this in the right way.

As for now I will be adding Al to my refuse to vote for list. Donald is on there as is Hillary. 

4 hours ago, Ten oz said:

He admitted it and isn't making any excuses. 

He admitted it after he got caught. I will give him some small credit for not making excuses. 

In my experience people rarely get caught the first time they do wrong so more may follow. Not saying it will just that its early.

3 hours ago, CharonY said:

Actually, the worse thing is arguably the forced kiss, even if it is less instagrammy.

They are both horrible equally. That picture will never go away. Now every time somebody looks at her funny she will wonder if they are thinking about that picture and judging her in some way. Even sadder some will be. Can you imagine someone you love in that chair? 

16 hours ago, iNow said:

Especially now that his accuser, a radio host for Fox News, has accepted his apology. She said people make mistakes and she has no interest in pursuing an ethics investigation or asking him to step down from the senate:

What does her parents think? Spouse if she has one? Kids? Women who work with and around AF?

4 hours ago, iNow said:

Right. Specifically which ones, though? 

Sexual harassment. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/democrats-embrace-ethics-committee-inquiry-for-senator-franken/546122/

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Outrider

[Ten oz]

4 minutes ago, Outrider said:

He admitted it after he got caught. I will give him some small credit for not making excuses. 

In my experience people rarely get caught the first time they do wrong so more may follow. Not saying it will just that its early.

 

Considering the level denial, conspiracy, victim blaming, whataboutism, woe is me syndrome, and bold face lying we are seeing from others I think it is useful to highlight that Franken has responded the right way. If Franken's reward for respectfully apologizing is to be tarred and feathered while others who deny, deny, deny skate by it simply encourage further denials. Franken is open to being held accountable; that is what we should expect and demand from these people. It is significantly more useful than denial which by its nature casts doubts on the women who report and in politics makes matters cripplingly partisan.

If there are statues at play here where Franken can be charged with a crime I am all for Tweeden pressing charges. Franken doesn't deserve a pass. He should be held accountable to the full letter of the law. I just don't think piling on because he was honest enough to apologize is good for anything especially when those who are accused of worse bathing in it. Media loves to represent both sides of a story. Can't have a climate scientist on without having a climate denier on at the same time and etc. When someone denies something media makes equal time guilt and innocence. It creates a level of parity which often isn't earned. By admitting  to wrong doing Franken has forgone that equal time standard and basically tossed himself to the wolves without the safety blanket of bothsides equal media time B.S.. It is a very weak position he has put himself in and as a result less forceful opposition is required. There is no white noise of denial, lies, and deflections to shout through.

[iNow]

23 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Considering the level denial, conspiracy, victim blaming, whataboutism, woe is me syndrome, and bold face lying we are seeing from others I think it is useful to highlight that Franken has responded the right way. If Franken's reward for respectfully apologizing is to be tarred and feathered while others who deny, deny, deny skate by it simply encourage further denials.

This concerns me here, as well.

18 hours ago, iNow said:

Democrats self-immolate while Republicans confabulate. Sad.

 

Btw - Thanks for addressing my question about what's under ethics investigation head on, Outrider. Cheers.

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, Outrider said:

You could have shut waitforufo down early on by just admitting AF's actions were deplorable and left it at that. This would have garnered much respect from me and probably plenty of lurkers well.

 

2 hours ago, rangerx said:

Is the part were you conflate the discussion to tell me that I think the former is perfectly acceptable because it's not the latter?

Your reading comprehension is right up there with waitforufo and you seemed to answer my question in their stead, by characterizing me as turning a blind eye to harassment.

The real issue at hand is your republican leaders are the one's who are actively and loudly minimizing sexual harassment and  assault while blaming, shaming or accusing their victims of lying.

That's far more insidious than the false narrative directed at my comments.

Edited November 17, 2017 by rangerx

[Outrider]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

 

 

Btw - Thanks for addressing my question about what's under ethics investigation head on, Outrider. Cheers.

Your welcome. Cheers.

2 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Considering the level denial, conspiracy, victim blaming, whataboutism, woe is me syndrome, and bold face lying we are seeing from others I think it is useful to highlight that Franken has responded the right way. If Franken's reward for respectfully apologizing is to be tarred and feathered while others who deny, deny, deny skate by it simply encourage further denials. Franken is open to being held accountable; that is what we should expect and demand from these people. It is significantly more useful than denial which by its nature casts doubts on the women who report and in politics makes matters cripplingly partisan.

I am not denying any of that I am pointing out none of it makes Al less guilty. 

Abby Honold is a rape victim who asked Al Franken to draft a bill that would provide federal funding for special law enforcement training on interviewing victims of rape. If Al had said yes but theres something you should know first. I could see showing leniency. If at any time this year while all the scandals kept rolling Al had come clean I could see showing mercy. But that is not what happened. He only owned up when accused by a woman with some pretty good evidence in her hand.

If he gets "tarred and feathered" that will be his reward for using his power to take what he wanted. Leeann has already given him his reward for his apology. Forgiveness and thats no small thing.

BTW Ten oz, rangerx, anybody, everybody. 

What will happen if tomorrow a female coworker comes in with a similar picture of you?

I would be fired with very little conversation. 

2 hours ago, rangerx said:

The real issue at hand is your republican leaders are the one's who are actively and loudly minimizing sexual harassment and  assault while blaming, shaming or accusing their victims of lying.

Really? You missed the part right above what you quoted where I said Donald Trump and Roy Moore's actions are worse. I guess you also missed where I said I wouldn't vote for DT. I have also never voted for RM nor will I. Trump was on my no vote list way before he even got the nomination for various things.

The issue at hand here is the mistreatment of Leeann Tweeden. What you speak of is a bigger and larger issue and is being rightfully discused in other threads.

The actions of AF in no way excuse the actions of others.

The actions of others in no way excuse the actions of AF.

Well looky there it works both ways. Now if we could get our politics to work like that.

BTW just so you know I withdrew my support for the Republican party years ago on the grounds that they are bonkers.

[koti]

On one side we have a clumsy, banned (correctly) troll who uses a double standard to try to stir to satisfy his insecurities but on the other, we have a genuine condemnation of an obvious field trip goof - really?

[Ten oz]

52 minutes ago, Outrider said:

Your welcome. Cheers.

I am not denying any of that I am pointing out none of it makes Al less guilty. 

Abby Honold is a rape victim who asked Al Franken to draft a bill that would provide federal funding for special law enforcement training on interviewing victims of rape. If Al had said yes but theres something you should know first. I could see showing leniency. If at any time this year while all the scandals kept rolling Al had come clean I could see showing mercy. But that is not what happened. He only owned up when accused by a woman with some pretty good evidence in her hand.

If he gets "tarred and feathered" that will be his reward for using his power to take what he wanted. Leeann has already given him his reward for his apology. Forgiveness and thats no small thing.

BTW Ten oz, rangerx, anybody, everybody. 

What will happen if tomorrow a female coworker comes in with a similar picture of you?

I would be fired with very little conversation. 

 

No where have I said there should be leniency. I clearly stated that if there is a statue he can be charged on it should be pursued . My point is that people shouldn't pile on because it is easier to pile onto him than others. Those who deny create a strain where it becomes uncomfortable to comment about. There are others who have done worse yet have an army of apologists and defenders who are enabled and often embolden by the denials. I think there is  a level of moral /outrage laziness to focus on Franken, who has responded with more decency than most, while being timid on about the actions of others because they punch back. It creates a moral equivalency which doesn't exist. 

What Franken did was wrong, bad, and if a crime let the justice system work. That said there are others accused of worse who we aren't discussing by name at all and who do not have thread on this site devoted to the sexual misconduct they have been accused of. I think most of us on this site are aware that tit for tat whatabout arguments are cheap, deflective, and petty so at this point we're avoiding pivoting with additional threads about other people for the sake of our own intellectual integrity. That said I hope that those who feel moved to speak out against Franken stay consist across the board in all other cases.

 

As for your comment about what would happen at work if a similar picture came out, context matters; Franken wasn't in the Senate at the time of that picture. Would your employer fire you over a picture taken years prior to your employment despite the fact you had never been charged with any any crime or had any formal legal investigation launched? I do not believe mine would. 

[iNow]

The difference in response is rather telling, too. DT and RM blame their victims relying on he said she said and attempts to divide (“this is a liberal plot” or “you can’t trust the media”). AF owned it and apologized with integrity. 

http://abcn.ws/2irVg6d

Quote

Leeann Tweeden reads apology letter from U.S. Senator Al Franken on The View: "Dear Leeann, I want to apologize to your personally. I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, but that doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse...I am so sorry. Sincerely, Al Franken." 

According to Tweeden, Franken also asked to meet with her personally.

 

[Ten oz]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

The difference in response is rather telling, too. DT and RM blame their victims relying on he said she said and attempts to divide (“this is a liberal plot” or “you can’t trust the media”). AF owned it and apologized with integrity. 

http://abcn.ws/2irVg6d

 

Perhaps Al Franken would have been better of calling the picture a "locker room" picture and bringing Roy Moore's accusers with him to a press conference? 

Obviously nothing others did or do justify Franken's actions. They were wrong. He is paying a price and will surely pay it in every election for the rest of his political career. That said I just hope those offended by Franken stay consistent. Being offended only by those decent enough to apologize mustn't become the status qou. 

[Outrider]

49 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

No where have I said there should be leniency. I clearly stated that if there is a statue he can be charged on it should be pursued . My point is that people shouldn't pile on because it is easier to pile onto him than others. Those who deny create a strain where it becomes uncomfortable to comment about. There are others who have done worse yet have an army of apologists and defenders who are enabled and often embolden by the denials. I think there is  a level of moral /outrage laziness to focus on Franken, who has responded with more decency than most, while being timid on about the actions of others because they punch back. It creates a moral equivalency which doesn't exist. 

What Franken did was wrong, bad, and if a crime let the justice system work. That said there are others accused of worse who we aren't discussing by name at all and who do not have thread on this site devoted to the sexual misconduct they have been accused of. I think most of us on this site are aware that tit for tat whatabout arguments are cheap, deflective, and petty so at this point we're avoiding pivoting with additional threads about other people for the sake of our own intellectual integrity. That said I hope that those who feel moved to speak out against Franken stay consist across the board in all other cases.

 

Ok I think we are about as close as we are going to get. I agree with most, maybe, all of that.

50 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

As for your comment about what would happen at work if a similar picture came out, context matters; Franken wasn't in the Senate at the time of that picture. Would your employer fire you over a picture taken years prior to your employment despite the fact you had never been charged with any any crime or had any formal legal investigation launched? I do not believe mine would. 

I'll have to concede I wasn't really thinking about how old the picture was. I agree if the incident happened years before my employment there would probaly be minimal or no punishment. 

However I do expect our senators to be held to a higher level. It seems often that the reverse is true. 

47 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Perhaps Al Franken would have been better of calling the picture a "locker room" picture and bringing Roy Moore's accusers with him to a press conference? 

Maybe. That just shows how bad things have become. 

49 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

That said I just hope those offended by Franken stay consistent.

I agree and feel free to hold me to this. The reason you don't see me in all those other threads is because there is little for me to say other than "yes you are right."

 

[rangerx]

2 hours ago, Outrider said:

Really? You missed the part right above what you quoted where I said Donald Trump and Roy Moore's actions are worse. I guess you also missed where I said I wouldn't vote for DT. I have also never voted for RM nor will I. Trump was on my no vote list way before he even got the nomination for various things.

Fair enough. At least you didn't re-mention not voting for Hillary in your follow up comment because I wasn't aware of which office she was running for.  Invoking Hillary at every turn is just plain old if not absurd. Even insane, in so many instances.(though not directed at your comments)

I doubt anyone in this thread thinks sexual harassment or assault is excused. Reading back, it's actually a non-issue that was incited by the OP to create a shit show.

The point I was trying to make is the punishment ought to fit the crime. If I spit on you, that's assault. If I hit you, that's assault to commit bodily harm. If I shoot you, that's assault with a deadly weapon. Al Franken was contrite, admitting that he needlessly inflicted emotional distress and physical contact upon a woman he worked with. She accepted his apology. Anyone who denies these as mitigating circumstances, has a poor notion of justice or forgiveness.

 

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Being offended only by those decent enough to apologize mustn't become the status quo. 

Thank you.  +1

[MigL]

Waitforufo did not create a 'shit' show.

He posted something which is important to him, and INVITED people to discuss.
If you didn't think the topic was worth discussing, why did you participate ?

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

why did you participate ?

Because I can. Whataboutism in whatever trolly format shouldn't stand, no less an OP on a science forum with rules governing that sort of thing.

[Outrider]

20 hours ago, rangerx said:

At least you didn't re-mention not voting for Hillary in your follow up comment because I wasn't aware of which office she was running for.

I was only trying to get you to see where I am coming from. I am a man with no political party and in the last POTUS election I had no candidate that I could conscientiously vote for. Thats my opinion and I have no intention of debating that in this thread. I hope to have time to explain myself better in the future but today is not that day.

21 hours ago, rangerx said:

The point I was trying to make is the punishment ought to fit the crime. If I spit on you, that's assault. If I hit you, that's assault to commit bodily harm. If I shoot you, that's assault with a deadly weapon. Al Franken was contrite, admitting that he needlessly inflicted emotional distress and physical contact upon a woman he worked with. She accepted his apology. Anyone who denies these as mitigating circumstances, has a poor notion of justice or forgiveness.

 

Ok I agree with all of that with one exception.

Al was contrite after he was caught that makes a large difference for me.

Look I am not saying brand sex offender on his cheek or anything but I do think he should step down. As should Trump and Moore and others.

I guess my main message here is less bad dosent equal good.

[iNow]

Maybe “gooder,” then?

[Outrider]

22 minutes ago, iNow said:

Maybe “gooder,” then?

Well I did chuckle a bit if that was your intent but I cannot agree. Its a good point tho if we go around calling things less bad enough we might well start to think of them as gooder. This is how we warp our morals. 

Recently a man took a lathe out of gear but did not turn the motor off. He started loosening the jaws with a very large allen key when another wrench fell and hit the gear lever. When the machine came on the allen key took off his thumb at once and when it hit the other side it took half each of his middle and ring fingers. I have heard a lot of people say it could have been worse. I have heard no one say it was good in any way.

[rangerx]

2 minutes ago, Outrider said:

Al was contrite after he was caught that makes a large difference for me

It's a good point. Al Franken would have come clean even in the absence of it, yet knowing it's existence. He simply does not fit the description of someone who would invite a scandal. Either scenario never happened, though.

It won't stop conservatives from hillarying him though, I suspect.


 

[iNow]

10 minutes ago, Outrider said:

Well I did chuckle a bit

Then I hit my target

[iNow]

On 11/16/2017 at 5:13 PM, iNow said:

What specifically are they investigating?

I found this explainer helpful: 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-ethics-investigation-works/story?id=51225867

[iNow]

Another woman has come forward. She says AF fully cupped her ass cheek while having a picture of the two of them taken by her husband at the fair. This would've happened after he was already a senator back in 2010 and she posted about it at the time on her FB page:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/11/16/16665830/al-franken-sexual-assault-allegations

Quote

Lindsay Menz, a 33-year-old woman, said the senator grabbed her butt while the two of them were taking a photo at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010, CNN first reported:

Then, as her husband held up her phone and got ready to snap a photo of the two of them, Franken "pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear," Menz said. "It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek."