When is justice ever justified?

[dimreepr]

We are all subject to brain development/abnormality and past experience, neither of which is in our control.

A random example, we're quite happy if a lion eats a gazel but if that lion mistakes a human for a gazel, it would be shot; that's not justice, it's revenge.

[swansont]

Or it's neither.

 

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, swansont said:

Or it's neither.

 

But is it justified?

I understand the imperative to stop the mistake happening again, but...

[swansont]

28 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

But is it justified?

I understand the imperative to stop the mistake happening again, but...

Can someone justify it? Sure. It's a safety issue, or at least it can be cast as such. But that's not the same as saying it's justice, or revenge. 

[dimreepr]

22 minutes ago, swansont said:

Can someone justify it? Sure. It's a safety issue, or at least it can be cast as such. But that's not the same as saying it's justice, or revenge. 

Exactly my question.

[pavelcherepan]

13 hours ago, dimreepr said:

A random example, we're quite happy if a lion eats a gazel but if that lion mistakes a human for a gazel, it would be shot; that's not justice, it's revenge.

It depends on the perspective. Definitions of what is "just" or "fair" differ between cultures and, therefore, justice is only ever justified in particular setting from a particular view point.

[dimreepr]

10 hours ago, pavelcherepan said:

It depends on the perspective. Definitions of what is "just" or "fair" differ between cultures and, therefore, justice is only ever justified in particular setting from a particular view point.

Justice doesn't differ between cultures only what we perceive to be fair and we have no control over that. 

[TakenItSeriously]

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Justice doesn't differ between cultures only what we perceive to be fair and we have no control over that. 

Ok, I’ll bite, what’s your definition for justice?

[pavelcherepan]

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Justice doesn't differ between cultures only what we perceive to be fair and we have no control over that. 

Indeed, but let's look the definition of justice then: "Justice is the legal or philosophical theory by which fairness is administered". But then if what we feel like being fair differs between cultures, definition of what is "just" would differ as well.

There are other definitions, but it's hard to find one where justice and fairness are unrelated qualities.

[swansont]

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Justice doesn't differ between cultures only what we perceive to be fair and we have no control over that. 

Sure it does. What is punished under the law is not consistent between cultures.

[dimreepr]

TBH I lost my train of thought soon after I posted this topic (it seemed so clear at the time), from what I remember it's not about a definitive definition of the word 'justice' but more of a global expression of its use when most of us have little or no control of our circumstance, for instance, does starvation mitigate theft if the owner is tossing it in the trash? 

[pavelcherepan]

From a personal fairness and justice perspective this is totally justified, since the need for survival tops anything else. On the other hand, it's an interesting question whether justice can even be defined from a single person's perspective or it can only be applied to a larger group of people.

[dimreepr]

This thread suggests that it's more nuanced than an individual versus a group dynamic.

[pavelcherepan]

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

This thread suggests that it's more nuanced than an individual versus a group dynamic.

Which part are you referring to?

[dimreepr]

The whole thread, which is summed up rather nicely by swansont, CharonY, and Phi for All in response to geordief towards the bottom of the first page.

Edited December 12, 2017 by dimreepr