Unified Field Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Generally, thanks for your input Mordred. I really appreciate, when someone is discussing actual science, instead simply telling me, how stupid I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) It would be challenging considering you have numerous tensor ranks lol. Though I have read several articles that seemingly attempt to do so. example "• At this early stage in these notes, we generically define “tensor” as an organized array of mathematical objects such as numbers or functions." https://arxiv.org/pdf/1603.01660.pdf 19 minutes ago, Unified Field said: Generally, thanks for your input Mordred. I really appreciate, when someone is discussing actual science, instead simply telling me, how stupid I am... I always try to help teach so no worries there. The rest is up to the individual Edited December 30, 2017 by Mordred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 47 minutes ago, Unified Field said: Newton's law of gravitation works nicely on Earth - but how it works beyond the g. field of Earth? It works very well. You need to explain how it does that despite having (according to you) a serious flaw. 1 hour ago, Unified Field said: Newton laws work with solid bodies. In the case of liquids and gases, we use different rules... Not for calculating gravity we don't. 1 hour ago, Unified Field said: Cloud of gas is a body, but can you push it as a single object with your hand? How is that relevant? You keep bringing in irrelevant distractions. Unless you can focus on the specific argument you are trying to make, you will confuse everyone (including yourself). You need to stop going off at tangents. 1 hour ago, Unified Field said: Yes - if entire Solar System is attracted towards the galaxy center, then why planets are attracted towards the Sun and not towards the galaxy? Or how galaxies interact with eachother as single objects and not as separate star systems? They are attracted towards the galaxy. Just much, much less. The same reason the moon orbits the Earth and is (barely) affected by the Sun's gravity. 27 minutes ago, Unified Field said: Generally, thanks for your input Mordred. I really appreciate, when someone is discussing actual science, instead simply telling me, how stupid I am... I don't think anyone has said you are stupid. Ignorant, maybe. But we all are to differing extents. And it is a good thing because it is an opportunity to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unified Field Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Quote No. Newton's laws are still accurate for liquids and gases; the only difference is that they have to be analyzed through densities (note: not necessarily mass densities). The laws are still accurate. If I will push a cloud of gas, which has the same mass, as I have, I won't experience the force of the push, directed towards me. I would have to close the cloud in a container, to make it work - or turn myself into a flat surface, to interact with the gas, as a single object... Quote Because the sun is much, much, much, much closer than anything else in the galaxy. It's not because the Sun is more dense. It's that everything else is really, really, stupendously far away - so Newton's law of gravitation says that the corresponding force is tiny compared to that of the Sun. Ok, then why Solar System orbit around the center of galaxy and not around another star system, which has higher mass and is placed closer to Sun, than the galaxy center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Unified Field said: If I will push a cloud of gas, which has the same mass, as I have, I won't experience the force of the push, directed towards me. I would have to close the cloud in a container, to make it work - or turn myself into a flat surface, to interact with the gas, as a single object... Stand in front of a hair drier or better a jet engine, and then say you can't feel the push of a cloud of unconfined gas. Edited December 30, 2017 by studiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unified Field Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Quote It works very well. You need to explain how it does that despite having (according to you) a serious flaw. Problem is, that Newton's equation requires the constant value of G to work. But there's no G beyond the g. field of Earth Quote Not for calculating gravity we don't. True... But maybe we should? 10kg of mass should induce different force of attraction, when it's exist in a form of a metal ball and a form of gas cloud... Quote How is that relevant? You keep bringing in irrelevant distractions. Unless you can focus on the specific argument you are trying to make, you will confuse everyone (including yourself). You need to stop going off at tangents. It's you, who think, that it's irrevelant. But in this subject, state of matter has significant role in interactions between objects. If I throw a 10kg piece of steel, it will pass through 10kg of gas and it will slow down just a tiny bit. However in 10kg of water, 10kg of steel, will slow down visibly. But when two 10kg solid bodies collide directly, they loose their momentum completely. What is the distribution of matter at different states in a g. field? What kind of matter is in the center and what is placed on the outside of mass concentration? Quote They are attracted towards the galaxy. Just much, much less. The same reason the moon orbits the Earth and is (barely) affected by the Sun's gravity. <copied> Ok, then why Solar System orbit around the center of galaxy and not around another star system, which has higher mass and is placed closer to Sun, than the galaxy center? Quote And it is a good thing because it is an opportunity to learn. Exactly! This is why I like to speak with people, who have proper knowledge - each time I learn new things... Quote Stand in front of a hair drier or better a jet engine, and then say you can't feel the push of a cloud of unconfined gas. I don't say, that gas doesn't give back any force - but we need to include the size of a body, during those interactions. When we push a solid object in one spot, we push it as a whole body, but in a gas or liquid, we push only part of the mass - and only this part is pushing us back. Quote and only this part is pushing us back. And now imagine, that a solid body is attracted by the gravitation of a gas cloud - what will happen, if they collide? Simply - solid body will pass through and locate itself in the center of mass. However I would say, that it will be rather the gas, which would "wrap itself" around the solid object... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 39 minutes ago, Unified Field said: Quote Stand in front of a hair drier or better a jet engine, and then say you can't feel the push of a cloud of unconfined gas. 1) I don't say, that gas doesn't give back any force - but we need to include the size of a body, during those interactions. When we push a solid object in one spot, we push it as a whole body, but in a gas or liquid, we push only part of the mass - and only this part is pushing us back. Quote and only this part is pushing us back. 2) And now imagine, that a solid body is attracted by the gravitation of a gas cloud - what will happen, if they collide? Simply - solid body will pass through and locate itself in the center of mass. However I would say, that it will be rather the gas, which would "wrap itself" around the solid object... (1) Well since I don't agree with (1) I obviously can't agree that (2) follows. Consider the loudpeaker in your room. In the productuion of sound it pushes on one very tiny part of the atmosphere. But the entire atmosphere is connected and pushes back. The mechanism may not be exactly the same as for a solid but the principle is, in that the push is passed on from portion to portion of the 'body' , solid or gas, indefinitely. In fact indefinitely means until friction dissipates it. (2) In Science we need to be more precise than in normal language. So I can't see how a solid body can both pass through the gas and locate itself at the centre of gravity. Surely what actually happens depends upon the relative velocities of the sold and the gas? I have cut concrete with water jetting. Here the fluid passes through the solid. Equally a fast enough solid ball will penetrate and pass right through a cloud. Nature is more complicated an vaired than we can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Unified Field said: According to science, there's absolutely no correlaton between the size of an object and the gravitational field, which it produces. Science tells, that changing the size of Sun wouldn't have no effect on the planets in Solar System. I don't agree with this. I think, that density of an object has significant importance for the properties of g. field, which it produces. What makes me thinks this way? Well, I've noticed, that celestial objects, which have low density, like a nebula, don't attract other objects with the same force, as planets or stars. If density of objects has no influence on gravity, then try this: - take a beach ball and a golf ball with similar masses - throw them both into a pond - think... I say, that big objects attract matter at larger distance, than small objects, but the force of attraction is weaker. Mass concentrated in small area generates a g. field with higher magnitude, but distributed over smaller space. Mass scattered over large area generates bigger, but weaker g. field. It should be rather obvious, that objects with higher concentration of mass, create different curvatures of "space-time", than objects with low density of matter. Those two images show, what according to me, is the difference of "space-time curvatures", for 2 objects with the same mass, but different sizes: ! Moderator Note We've been over this ad nauseam and you were forbidden from bringing it up again. Drawing a picture isn't evidence. There is plenty of evidence already out there of masses of different densities, in the form of satellites, that you could undertake an actual investigation. If forces were density-dependent rather than mass-dependent, the forces on two bodies of unequal density would not be equal and opposite. Have fun explaining closed orbits with that (seeing as it violates Newton's third law of motion) You can ask questions in other threads, but the instant you start up with your pet theory it will be locked and you'll get another spamming warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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