Standard TV coax plug and socket woes

[studiot]

Does anyone know when and if the bog standard TV coax plug has changed its specification or better can provide any dimensioned drawings?

 

It a long time since did any wiring of coax aerial cable but I have a box of coax plugs and other fittings from the mid 1970s (new).

Needing to wire up a new TV and aerial I fitted these to new cable and plugged in the aerial.

The TV steadfastly refused to acknowledge the aerial and I noticed some trouble plugging in.

Sourcing some modern new coax plugs and fitting one of these resulted in immediate life in the TV.

 

So I inspected the older plugs and compared them with the newer ones.

Average centre pin diameter for older ones 2.9 mm

Average centre pin diameter for newer ones 2.21mm

Both measured with the same micrometer.

Small wonder I was haveing trouble plugging in.

 

Looking on the net I can't find any reference to coax plug sizesor standards and no longer have any trade datasheets or other sources available.

 

[iNow]

Can you input coax to a converter box and output HDMI? 

[StringJunky]

28 minutes ago, studiot said:

Does anyone know when and if the bog standard TV coax plug has changed its specification or better can provide any dimensioned drawings?

 

It a long time since did any wiring of coax aerial cable but I have a box of coax plugs and other fittings from the mid 1970s (new).

Needing to wire up a new TV and aerial I fitted these to new cable and plugged in the aerial.

The TV steadfastly refused to acknowledge the aerial and I noticed some trouble plugging in.

Sourcing some modern new coax plugs and fitting one of these resulted in immediate life in the TV.

 

So I inspected the older plugs and compared them with the newer ones.

Average centre pin diameter for older ones 2.9 mm

Average centre pin diameter for newer ones 2.21mm

Both measured with the same micrometer.

Small wonder I was haveing trouble plugging in.

 

Looking on the net I can't find any reference to coax plug sizesor standards and no longer have any trade datasheets or other sources available. 

 

Is this any use? https://sewelldirect.com/learning-center/rg59-or-rg6 The only thing confusing me is that the newer cable is thicker so the new plug pin should thicker, I would have thought..

Edited January 6, 2018 by StringJunky

[Sensei]

11 hours ago, studiot said:

standard TV coax

Are you talking about it?

I bought two such just two months ago, for $0.15 per each, in TV antennas and satellite dish shop.. Cut wire, made some adjustments to wire, and screw plugs on wire.

 

11 hours ago, studiot said:

or better can provide any dimensioned drawings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable

In the middle of article you have list of standards with datasheet.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Sensei

[studiot]

Thanks to all those who replied and tried to help.

 

I mean the Belling-Lee connector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector

 

[Sensei]

23 minutes ago, studiot said:

Thanks to all those who replied and tried to help.

 

I mean the Belling-Lee connector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector

Without HDMI and digital data transfer from satellite and/or digital TV channels in Full HD quality, your new (I assume modern?) televisor purchase will be completely senseless, as quality of image will be horrible in comparison to what you might really have..

Edited January 7, 2018 by Sensei

[studiot]

10 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Without HDMI and digital data transfer from satellite and/or digital TV channels in Full HD quality, your new (I assume modern?) televisor purchase will be completely senseless, as quality of image will be horrible in comparison to what you might really have..

I am sorry I really don't know what you mean. HDMI is a video/audio/control standard that is much lower frequency and quite different from (and unsuitable for)  the terrestrial digital television broadcast signals.

The system is now working perfectly in full HD mode since I have fitted modern B-L connectors.

I haven't seen any 4k mode since there are no transmissions of 4k in the UK and the BBC "has no plans to broadcast any".

[geordief]

Why don't you get Freeview on satellite? It is free . All you need is a dish and any  satellite receiver .

I get BBC,Red button ,ITV,  Ch4 24hr NEW etc etc

 

I don't give a Rhesus' about 4K ....

Edited January 7, 2018 by geordief

[Sensei]

Studiot,

You have two methods to transfer information: analog and digital.

Do you have satellite dish? Do you have cable TV? Signal from them must be plugged to Satellite/Cable TV receiver. Data is transferred as MPEG stream. Receiver decodes it and outputs Full HD (1920x1080) stream and user must plug HDMI cable to receiver and TV, to have full quality.

Or do you have obsolete aerial antenna on the roof? It's analog, the most likely.

Aerial digital TV, which sends and receives MPEG streams also, requires special receivers-decoders, unless your TV has it built-in.

 

If you have Full HD TV, to be able to have full quality, you must also have digital data transfer (decoded MPEG streams).

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Sensei

[studiot]

3 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Studiot,

You have two methods to transfer information: analog and digital.

Do you have satellite dish? Do you have cable TV? Signal from them must be plugged to Satellite/Cable TV receiver. Data is transferred as MPEG stream. Receiver decodes it and outputs Full HD (1920x1080) stream and user must plug HDMI cable to receiver and TV, to have full quality.

Or do you have obsolete aerial antenna on the roof?

Aerial digital TV, which sends and receives MPEG streams also, requires special receivers-decoders, unless your TV has it built-in.

 

 

I really don't see what this has to do with my question.

Yes the TV will receive and decode satellite or cable, but no, thankfully, I don't need that clumsy and cumbersome dish since the TB signal is fine from the aerial in my loft. There is nothing obsolete about my Yagi.

Of course cable is not free.

 

[Sensei]

25 minutes ago, studiot said:

I really don't see what this has to do with my question.

If you will be using analog TV signal on modern 40"...60" OLED/LED/LCD TV, you just wasted money.

There is needed digital TV transmission, satellite dish transmission, or cable TV transmission (fiber wire), to fully utilize potential and enjoy modern TV image quality..

Obsolete analog PAL/NTSC which is interpolated to Full HD (by TV cpu/gpu), is not the real Full HD.

 

Digital TV aerial looks like that (change to graphics mode):

https://www.google.com/search?q=digital+tv+aerial

 

49 minutes ago, studiot said:

I am sorry I really don't know what you mean. HDMI is a video/audio/control standard that is much lower frequency and quite different from (and unsuitable for)  the terrestrial digital television broadcast signals.

HDMI cable goes from satellite TV receiver, cable TV box, to your TV. Just 1 to 3 meters. It's just the last stage of transmission once MPEG stream was decoded.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Sensei

[studiot]

Perhaps the broadcast standards and practices are different from the UK where you live?

But thank you for trying to help.

Edited January 7, 2018 by studiot

[interested]

The problem you encountered is common.

Connectors made in the USA and Europe often differ, rounding errors when converting imperial to metric does not help, this is especially noticeable on small gauge connectors. I always check very carefully after having been caught out more than once, that electrical pins connect firmly, not just the mechanical connections. RJ45 USA is not the same as RJ 45 EU for instance , although they may work 50% of the time. With a lose electrical connection it will deteriate over time and will cause intermittent problems due to the slightest movement

[Lord Antares]

On 07. 01. 2018. at 12:56 PM, Sensei said:

/cut

What you are saying has nothing to do with what you are saying. He's talking about IEC connector sizes, while you're talking about DVB-t and DVB-s receivers. One has nothing to do with another. He is interested in the connector on the coax cable itself.

On 07. 01. 2018. at 1:34 PM, interested said:

The problem you encountered is common.

Connectors made in the USA and Europe often differ, rounding errors when converting imperial to metric does not help, this is especially noticeable on small gauge connectors.

That's quite wrong. I mean, you're right but you're also wrong. The US and EU use different types of connectors. But these are simply different TYPES of connectors, not that the same type of connector differs. The USA uses the F-connector (the screw-on one, from Sensei's photo above), while EU uses the IEC (Belling-Lee) connector, the one from Studiot's picture. Studiot seems to be talking about the IEC connectors in both cases.

I sell these connectors, the cables and all that and I've seen pretty much all types of them. I'm reasonably sure that there aren't multiple types of the same connector, they're all standard.

On 06. 01. 2018. at 11:54 PM, studiot said:

/cut

The IEC (Belling-Lee) was made somewhere in the early 20th century and has not changed since; not that I'm aware, anyway. They shouldn't differ. Maybe in the external case, not the pin or the ''circle'' itself. Are you sure one is not the F-connector and the other IEC connector? Can you take a picture of both? As far as I'm aware, they shouldn't differ if they're both the same thing.

[John Cuthber]

4 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

As far as I'm aware, they shouldn't differ if they're both the same thing.

Thanks for that.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread would have gone better if the OP had included pictures?

[Lord Antares]

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

Thanks for that.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread would have gone better if the OP had included pictures?

He provided pictures of the kind of connectors, but not his connectors. On his picture are the standard IEC connectors (which are mainly used in Europe) but I'm curious to see how he has two different ones.

P.S. I just realized you were probably sarcastic with the first sentence. What I meant was, if both are the same kind of connector (IEC), then they shouldn't be different sizes, regardless of how old or where they're from. That was what I intended to say.

[John Cuthber]

I'm fairly sure that the pic he provided shows the two ends of an extension lead.

It's  a plug and a socket.

1 hour ago, Lord Antares said:

I just realized you were probably sarcastic with the first sentence.

Bingo!

 

[Lord Antares]

7 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm fairly sure that the pic he provided shows the two ends of an extension lead.

It's  a plug and a socket.

No it doesn't. One of the connectors is typically male and the other is female  It's not an extension cord. At least where I'm from.

[EdEarl]

I saw one store where you can buy the standard for $117, IEC. "International Standard 61169-2

[John Cuthber]

19 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

No it doesn't. One of the connectors is typically male and the other is female  It's not an extension cord. At least where I'm from.

I'm waiting to hear from the OP.

The pic from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector

 shows a plug + socket: my guess is they are the two ends of an extension lead.

And, very roughly, the pins in the middle look like they are about 2.2 and 2.9 mm

[Lord Antares]

4 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm waiting to hear from the OP.

The pic from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector

 shows a plug + socket: my guess is they are the two ends of an extension lead.

And, very roughly, the pins in the middle look like they are about 2.2 and 2.9 mm

You aren't listening. It's not an extension cord. The tv (receiver) typically has the female plug while the antenna has the male plug. Male to female is the standard antenna cable. Male to male or female to female would be extension cables, although those are quite rare. Just type in "coax cable iec" and you'll see that all results show the male to female cable.

[John Cuthber]

45 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

You aren't listening. It's not an extension cord. The tv (receiver) typically has the female plug while the antenna has the male plug. Male to female is the standard antenna cable. Male to male or female to female would be extension cables, although those are quite rare. Just type in "coax cable iec" and you'll see that all results show the male to female cable.

There may be a reason I'm not listening to you.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TV-ARIEL-LEAD-Digital-Freeview-Extension-Aerial-tv-cable-3M-Male-To-Female/322992271109?hash=item4b33d6ef05:g:6bwAAOSwR6JZeOFX

If I want to make the cable from my antenna longer what I need is a cable with a socket at one end and a plug at the other.

Think about it.

Would an "extension cable" with one of these at each end be any use?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/white-plug-13a/17967?tc=CT6&ds_rl=1248181&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1249481&gclid=CjwKCAiA1uHSBRBUEiwAkBCtzSVhK7aJHamPiOhGG0JEuO2bjmhBlTwXN4Tci3A-WQuJIaSN4FN04xoCxkQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKrcrfvL09gCFYWNGwodU0kA-A

How about a cable with the corresponding socket at each end?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ex-Pro-Single-Extension-socket-without-White/dp/B002BZXDF6/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_60_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6TX55SDAFW6AHSFC63Y7

 

Or would it be more sensible to have a plug at one end, and a socket at the other?

[studiot]

First some terminology

As far as I can tell, the cable picture  I posted has a plug on each end. One plug is male the other female. The cable has no sockets.

Yes this makes it an extension cable because, when connected at one end, it can reproduce the connection conditions at the other.

That is it has the same gender of connecter at its free end as the connector it mated with at the other end.

So it has opposite genders at each end of the cable. That is the condition for an extension cable, it can extend and existing connection cable by reproducing either connection gender at the extended end.

This opposite gender requirement is duplicated in other xtension cbales such as a mains extension cable, a USB extension cable and so on.

Note I also said connection cable. A connection cable is either fixed to something at one end or carries the same gender connector at both ends.
A simple example would be an audio connection cable with a  male jack plug at each end. We could extend this by using an audio extension cable with a male jack plug at one end and a female jack plug at the other.

Now I have said they are both plugs.
That is because we need additional terminology to define the connection conditions.

This is where the difference between plug and socket comes in.

A socket is fixed by being mounted in some way.

A plug is free on the 'waggly' end of the cable and designed to be 'plugged into' a fixed socket.

Both the socket and the plug can come in either gender (male or female) varieties.

If you look in electrical trade catalogues you will see this is how the items are described.

There is some blurring of the distinction (isn't there always?). For instance whilst a mains extension lead might have a definite socket mounted on a cable reel, it might have what is called a 'trailing socket' instead.

 

As to my original post I have been doing some more research.
It was suggested that overheating during soldering might have expanded the one type of plug pin, which remaind stretched after cooling.

I will report back on this theory when I have more information.

 

 

[Lord Antares]

9 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

If I want to make the cable from my antenna longer what I need is a cable with a socket at one end and a plug at the other.

Think about it.

I apologize. I wasn't being clear.

Antennas which have the cable sticking out of them have the male connector, so you need a male to female connector. I guess technically it is an extension cord since you could plug the one from your antenna into the TV just the same. However, the point is that there is no other useful variant of the IEC cable. Female to female serves no purpose and the few things you could use the male to male one (like the antenna amplifier) always come with the male to male adapter, so again, you will buy the female to male cable.

No one calls it the extension cable since it is the only variant of the cable you're going to be using. By your logic, the only non-extension antenna IEC cable would be nothing to male, right? But that one isn't being sold...

Why did you go out of your way to point out that it is an extension cable (even though you might be technically correct) if it's the only kind of that cable which is being produced?

EDIT: Studiot cross-post: Yes, I agreed that, by definition, it is the extension cable but it was redundant to point that out. As far as your plugs are concerned, I agree that they are likely damaged as they should be standardized.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Lord Antares

[Strange]

14 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

Female to female serves no purpose and the few things you could use the male to male one (like the antenna amplifier) always come with the male to male adapter, so again, you will buy the female to male cable.

I just ran into this problem. I moved to a new house and took a collection of useful looking cables with me. This included 3 male-to-male TV antenna cables and one male-to-female (might be useful as an extension, I thought ).

I am almost certain that in the previous house both the wall socket and the TV socket were female so I needed the male-to-male cables. In the new house, the only one that was useful was the "extension"cable. 

Now I want to go back to the old hose and see what the sockets really were...

Edited January 13, 2018 by Strange