Woodworking: Amateurs, Craftsmen, & In-Between

[zapatos]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

On a table, it's a board that runs perpendicular to the tabletop planks. So, you have multiple boards running in parallel and connected to make a single large rectangular top, but those show end-grain on the far edges and also have a tendency to bow/cup as seasons change. The breadboard is an attachment perpendicular to those boards, placed at the ends, for both decorative and functional results (the function being it helps minimize bowing and cupping).

Something like this, where the bar ( | ) represents the breadboard:

TABLE:   |=====|

Ah, thank you. I wasn't familiar with that term. I'll have to add this to the thread "Today I Learned...".

[StringJunky]

15 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Ah, thank you. I wasn't familiar with that term. I'll have to add this to the thread "Today I Learned...".

I  learnt as well.

If you want to not do it that way, this is useful info... might take a read or two to sink but it makes sense.

Quote

Tips for Dealing With Expansion

When building a carcass for a cabinet, each of the four sides of the box should have the grain oriented in the same direction. As such, all four sides should grow relatively equally (particularly if all four come from the same piece of original stock). This, however, can cause issues when drawers are used in the cabinet, making the drawers difficult to open & close. This is why most cabinet carcasses are built using plywood, which isn't affected by humidity nearly as much as dimensional lumber.

When gluing up a few boards to make a table top, not only should the grain of each of the boards be in the same direction and boards be matched so that consecutive boards have similar colors, but the end grains should be in opposite directions. In other words, when one board is laid with the end grain (indicative of cupping) facing up, the next board should be facing down, then up, and so on.

This will help "balance out" any cupping that may occur.

When orienting such a top on a structure such as a desk, it should be laid so that the end-grains of the boards are on the two short sides of the table. To connect it the top to the structure, screw the front side of the desk so that no movement can occur, but on the opposite (back) side, screws should be affixed in slots to allow the boards to widen or narrow. Failure to account for such movement may eventually lead to cracking (shrinkage) or excessive cupping (expansion) on the table top.

https://www.thespruce.com/allowing-for-expansion-and-shrinking-3536449

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by StringJunky

[iNow]

It's funny. I've read that same link above in my own searches. As noted, I'm likely going to use battens instead, like this:

 

So, what do you fellas think... for a table: Red Oak or White Oak? Opinions welcome.

Edited February 27, 2018 by iNow

[StringJunky]

16 minutes ago, iNow said:

It's funny. I've read that same link above in my own searches. As noted, I'm likely going to use battens instead, like this:

 

So, what do you fellas think... for a table: Red Oak or White Oak? Opinions welcome.

Red oak sees to be slightly softer and seems to have a warmer hue than white oak. Nice.

Edited February 27, 2018 by StringJunky

[zapatos]

22 minutes ago, iNow said:

It's funny. I've read that same link above in my own searches. As noted, I'm likely going to use battens instead, like this:

 

So, what do you fellas think... for a table: Red Oak or White Oak? Opinions welcome.

Around here red oak is cheaper, but I prefer white oak. Both will work very well for you though.

We have a small piece of property and right in the middle of it, a huge Black Walnut fell. If I could figure out how to get it out of there I'd have enough walnut to last the rest of my life.

Edited February 27, 2018 by zapatos

[iNow]

Same here. Red oak is cheaper. White oak is more impervious to water. It's just a matter of taste, but I'm unsure how white oak will take the finish (oil and wax) versus the red oak due to pores being closed.

[StringJunky]

34 minutes ago, iNow said:

Same here. Red oak is cheaper. White oak is more impervious to water. It's just a matter of taste, but I'm unsure how white oak will take the finish (oil and wax) versus the red oak due to pores being closed.

 

Quote

Oiling consideration

If oak is being oiled it is a good idea to sand it with a sandpaper that is no finer than 150 grit. The reason for this is that the pores of the wood are more open thus allowing the oil to sink into the wood better. Better absorption equals greater protection. https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/blog/what-everyone-should-know-about-finishing-oak/

When sanding to a finish, stand by the work sideways and push along the grain, with a view to raking out the grain, in the same motion and posture you use a hand plane. Don't stand fully facing the work because you can only sand in an arc that way and will scratch across the grain. which reduces the clarity of the grain relief when you put finish on

[iNow]

Finished my garage workbench where I basically tried every single join I plan to do for my table. It’s a Frankenstein of a bench because of this, but it’s crazy rigid and strong.

Was feeling ambitious yesterday so knocked out a quick shop cart with shelf underneath using scrap. Struggled getting all legs level, but sanded the feet until all rocking was gone then put on some casters. Now I’ve got another station for my tools and it’s portable, too.

Gonna build a quick table for my kids next as final practice before the dining room farm table. Will follow nearly all of the same steps (except will use a sanded oak ply top instead of edge joined boards) and will use it to practice my planned finish.

Right now, am leaning toward 2-3 coats of danish oil followed by 3 coats of Arm-R-Seal followed by paste wax applied with super fine steel wool. That is, of course, depending on what my test pieces look like. I may leave out the danish oil depending on outcome on the red oak. 

When that’s done, I’ll build a bench for one side. That’s the plan, anyway. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by iNow

[zapatos]

Awesome! I know whenever I build something I find myself staring at it every time I pass it for a couple of weeks. It's a great feeling.

If you don't mind I'd love to see some pics when you get a chance. 

I did a bit of work this weekend too but it wasn't as cool as your project. My wife and I built a structure around her garden to keep out the bunnies and the squirrels. 

[iNow]

10 hours ago, zapatos said:

I'd love to see some pics when you get a chance. 

I'll put them on facebook 

[zapatos]

18 minutes ago, iNow said:

I'll put them on facebook 

touché 

[StringJunky]

I'm on a Japanese saw buying spree at the moment. A Kugihiki. A Hikimawashi, 2 Ryobas and a Kataba.   

[iNow]

21 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I'm on a Japanese saw buying spree at the moment. A Kugihiki. A Hikimawashi, 2 Ryobas and a Kataba.   

Wow! I would LOVE to do a side-by-side comparison and feel the difference of each of those. My heart says, "Yes!," but my brains says, "why don't you focus on getting a random orbital sander first, mate."

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Wow! I would LOVE to do a side-by-side comparison and feel the difference of each of those. My heart says, "Yes!," but my brains says, "why don't you focus on getting a random orbital sander first, mate."

I'm in the process of getting back into it and I want to learn to adopt Japanese techniques and I'm a geat admirer of their mindset in woodwork. From your perspective, I would let your projects dictate the order of your purchases because, at the end of the day, it's about doing, not owning. But certainly, get yourself a Japanese saw or two one day. A Ryoba would be a good start. It has two cutting edges; one for ripping and one for crosscutting.  Shogun and Gyokucho are decent makes with prices depending on the level of handcrafting that's gone into them - expect to pay $30 -40 upwards. Here''s a hikimawashi I got today from a Japan on Ebay. It was about £11 delivered. It's 10TPI, so it's pretty fast cutting:

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by StringJunky

[iNow]

Made some progress on the practice / mini-table for my daughters this weekend. There are 4 legs and each will receive 2 tenons, so I have a total of 8 mortises to make. Got 6 done with only extremely minimal mistakes (that... let's be honest... nobody other than me will EVER notice). 

Gonna get ready for glue up and clamping once the next two are done. 

Also, bought a board and did some test stain pieces so my wife can choose color. I did eight samples... bought a 4 foot board, cut it into 8 six inch blocks, did 8 stain samples. Two coats of stain, 3 coats of Arm R Seal, sanded in between each, then wiped with 0000 steel wool that I rubbed through paste wax and polished off.

Wish I could be out there doing this more. Paradoxically, I find my frustrations with work increasing now that I have such an enjoyable experience working solo with the wood. I come off stressful conference calls and just want to go do some sanding and chisel work. It's odd, but I like it.

[StringJunky]

8 minutes ago, iNow said:

Made some progress on the practice / mini-table for my daughters this weekend. There are 4 legs and each will receive 2 tenons, so I have a total of 8 mortises to make. Got 6 done with only extremely minimal mistakes (that... let's be honest... nobody other than me will EVER notice). 

Gonna get ready for glue up and clamping once the next two are done. 

Also, bought a board and did some test stain pieces so my wife can choose color. I did eight samples... bought a 4 foot board, cut it into 8 six inch blocks, did 8 stain samples. Two coats of stain, 3 coats of Arm R Seal, sanded in between each, then wiped with 0000 steel wool that I rubbed through paste wax and polished off.

Wish I could be out there doing this more. Paradoxically, I find my frustrations with work increasing now that I have such an enjoyable experience working solo with the wood. I come off stressful conference calls and just want to go do some sanding and chisel work. It's odd, but I like it.

There's a sizable bunch of clever people doing woodwork. Some luthiers, to name one group, can talk science with the best of them.

[StringJunky]

On making mistakes: "A master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell."

I'm asking myself: do I need a finish nailer?

Edited March 15, 2018 by StringJunky

[iNow]

I picked one up, but haven't had much chance yet to use it. 

[StringJunky]

3 hours ago, iNow said:

I picked one up, but haven't had much chance yet to use it. 

What size compressor have you got? I want the smallest I can get away with for a 16 gauge  2" nailer.

[Ken Fabian]

One addition to my tool selection that I now use all the time - and wonder how I ever did without - is my Triton Superjaws -

It is foot operated, portable and can clamp items up to 950mm (over 3 ft) .  I am seriously considering getting a second one to use paired instead of using saw-horses.

 

[StringJunky]

6 minutes ago, Ken Fabian said:

One addition to my tool selection that I now use all the time - and wonder how I ever did without - is my Triton Superjaws -

It is foot operated, portable and can clamp items up to 950mm (over 3 ft) .  I am seriously considering getting a second one to use paired instead of using saw-horses.

 

Added to my shopping list.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

What size compressor have you got? I want the smallest I can get away with for a 16 gauge  2" nailer.

I picked up the Makita MAC700 when we moved last year. It’s 2hp and 2.6 gallons and I’ve been really pleased with it. Would of course be nice sometimes to have a larger tank (though, not for finish nailing!), but I’ve got no complaints. Good piece of kit. 

12 minutes ago, Ken Fabian said:

One addition to my tool selection that I now use all the time - and wonder how I ever did without - is my Triton Superjaws -

Oh, wow. That’s badass and a half!

[iNow]

Used my brad nailer yesterday on a minor trim repair. That was cool, and easy. 

Other than carving mortise and tenons, mostly doing some experiments with stain. Empiricism and all that jazz. Trying to put some age and patina on the red oak, and the off the shelf stains aren’t hitting the chords we seek. 

Next approach...with fingers crossed:

METHODOLOGY

1 - water pop the wood (wet it w damp cloth to raise and open the grain for deeper absorption)

2 - Hit it with a dark jacobian stain

3 - Use a slurry of water based white wood putty (Timbermate) to fill and contrast the grains and pores

4 - sand it down and soften the dark stain

5 - two coats classic gray stain on top

6 - light sanding

7 - a few coats of Arm R Seal oil based varnish w satin finish

8 - wax rubbed on w 0000 steel wool

9, 10, & 11 - drink craft beer and hope to Odin this gets it where we want it

DISCUSSION

This may sound like a lot, but I promise the other 14 samples and mixtures I’ve done have all been for naught. In parallel, will try a 3:1 mixture of jacobian w classic gray.

If that happens to work, ingestion of craft beer can begin at step 3 or 4

Edited March 25, 2018 by iNow

[StringJunky]

53 minutes ago, iNow said:

Used my brad nailer yesterday on a minor trim repair. That was cool, and easy. 

Other than carving mortise and tenons, mostly doing some experiments with stain. Empiricism and all that jazz. Trying to put some age and patina on the red oak, and the off the shelf stains aren’t hitting the chords we seek. 

Next approach...with fingers crossed:

METHODOLOGY

1 - water pop the wood (wet it w damp cloth to raise and open the grain for deeper absorption)

2 - Hit it with a dark jacobian stain

3 - Use a slurry of water based white wood putty (Timbermate) to fill and contrast the grains and pores

4 - sand it down and soften the dark stain

5 - two coats classic gray stain on top

6 - light sanding

7 - a few coats of Arm R Seal oil based varnish w satin finish

8 - wax rubbed on w 0000 steel wool

9, 10, & 11 - drink craft beer and hope to Odin this gets it where we want it

DISCUSSION

This may sound like a lot, but I promise the other 14 samples and mixtures I’ve done have all been for naught. In parallel, will try a 3:1 mixture of jacobian w classic gray.

If that happens to work, ingestion of craft beer can begin at step 3 or 4

Don't forget the effect of UV over time. What wood species are you working on?

Got myself a Bosch Ergonomic  Li-ion combi dril... fab!  Just restored my Grandad's  Stanley 130 double-ended plane... sharp! I also just got a double-sided diamond sharpening plate and  having fun with that. Far superior and flatter than a whetstone. Japanese waterstones are the ultimate but I can't justify spending hundreds on them.

[iNow]

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Just restored my Grandad's  Stanley 130 double-ended plane

That’s awesome! I love old planes. Have been keeping my eye out for them on Craigslist in the tools and estate sale sections, but they don’t seem to come available often...most staying within the family, I’d guess. 

Using red oak. Cheaper and strong, but has a decidedly pink hue.