The future of humans

[DevilSolution]

I would like to know peoples opinions on how the human race will evolve with technology.

 

Given the fact robots are replacing large quantities of human jobs in almost every sector of idustry at an alarming rate, what is the future of human productivity?

It is presumed when technology replaces manpower that humans on average benefit, which thus far has proved true given the advancements in the agricultural and industrial sectors, allowing for cheaper foods and general goods / modern necessities. 

However can this curve continue? For every job a robot replaces a new job must be created to fill the gap, not only do all replaced jobs need replacing with something new but also the exponential growth of humanity also requires an unprecedented amount of currently unknown jobs to be created.

 

Essentially will technology cause a future pandemic in terms of jobs?

 

 

[Alex_Krycek]

My view:  there must be a fundamental shift in how we perceive the value of a human being.  Throughout the industrial age, and on through the information age, a human being's value has been equated to what he / she can produce.  As machines continue to advance and take over the production role, the value of a human being, if judged by the metric of the industrial age, will be nothing.  Human beings will be seen as obsolete machines, and those who control AI will be able to dispose of the unemployed as they see fit.  This misanthropic view will usher in a genocide unlike anything we have ever seen, with only the top tenth of 1% remaining on the planet.

Alternatively, society could shift and see the value of a human being not as a producer, but as a creator.  If we dispense with the erroneous notion that only a few people are the creative ones, and realize that every person can tap into his / her creative genius if they are not preoccupied with manual labor, then every human being will be valued as infinitely important.  AI then becomes a foundation on which humanity can pursue its true calling, which is to allow each individual's creative intelligence to unfold to the highest possible level.  Imagine a society where every person, those who were once janitors and desk clerks, is working at their own unique talent, engaging in their own infinite creative pursuit, and educated to a the highest level possible.  The amount of creative ideas generated would multiply exponentially, and machines would be the tools to implement these creative ideas.  

This is how I hope things unfold, anyway.     

[John Cuthber]

21 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

  Throughout the industrial age, and on through the information age, a human being's value has been equated to what he / she can produce.

Thankfully, that's not true.

We still look after the elderly and those with disabilities that mean that their contribution will be negligible or nil, and we do so at considerable cost.

[Alex_Krycek]

7 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Thankfully, that's not true.

We still look after the elderly and those with disabilities that mean that their contribution will be negligible or nil, and we do so at considerable cost.

 

Yes, you are correct.    I was referring to the system of compensation that has existed throughout the industrial age.  We compensate those based on what they are able to produce in the marketplace, not for simply being a human being (unless you live in a country that believes in social welfare, such the UK).   We do support the elderly and those with disabilities although they cannot produce, but as you say, we do so at considerable cost.  This altruistic support involves some other value system other than one based on pure material gain derived from what a human being can produce i.e., it esteems those with disabilities or those too old to work as being valuable because they are human, and thus are worthy of respect and dignity.  This higher appreciation of the value of a human being is what I hope can be extended as AI continues to take over the role of production.  However, there are some people in society who do not believe in human rights, or that a human being has any value if he / she is not producing something that the current economic system deems valuable.  If this view gains dominance as the tools of control wielded by narrow interests become more and more powerful, the outcome for the vast majority of people is going to be extremely dark.  

Edited January 14, 2018 by Alex_Krycek

[dimreepr]

10 hours ago, DevilSolution said:

I would like to know peoples opinions on how the human race will evolve with technology.

 

Given the fact robots are replacing large quantities of human jobs in almost every sector of idustry at an alarming rate, what is the future of human productivity?

It is presumed when technology replaces manpower that humans on average benefit, which thus far has proved true given the advancements in the agricultural and industrial sectors, allowing for cheaper foods and general goods / modern necessities. 

However can this curve continue? For every job a robot replaces a new job must be created to fill the gap, not only do all replaced jobs need replacing with something new but also the exponential growth of humanity also requires an unprecedented amount of currently unknown jobs to be created.

 

Essentially will technology cause a future pandemic in terms of jobs?

3

As long as we measure our self-worth, and by extension judge others, the future seems bleak.  

[Phi for All]

16 hours ago, DevilSolution said:

Essentially will technology cause a future pandemic in terms of jobs?

It's a self-healing system if we don't give in to despair and give up our rights. Robots may replace many humans in jobs that make things/move things, but robot owners need customers with jobs so they can afford to buy the things robots make/move. It seems like we can either fight to keep a place in our own societies, possibly without the help of corporations that want all the benefits of citizenship without all the responsibilities, or we can keep letting them shave away at our livelihoods until they figure out just how little they can get away with doing to get the most profit.

Simple alternative? Stop believing the small government lies, and have smart regulations guide a more prosperous future for a lot more citizens.

[Alex_Krycek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA&t=403s

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Simple alternative? Stop believing the small government lies, and have smart regulations guide a more prosperous future for a lot more citizens.

TED has an interesting talk regarding smart regulations and AI.  It's called "3 Principles for Creating Safer AI" by Stuart Russel. 

His principles for designing AI are as follows:

1.)  Altruism - AI must be programmed to do good for humanity, it's sole purpose is to make our lives better

2.)  Humility - AI is programmed to want to be good, but it's programmed to realize that it doesn't know what good / bad is, so it always defers to the human being to decide these ethical choices for it

3.)  Observation - AI observes human beings and works to understand what we want in life, this principle accords with principle 1

In any event, we need to be proactive and start nailing down some safeguards now, before this pandora's box is opened.  If not, we'll end up with something like this: 

 

[Thomasmariel]

In the future, it seems logical that the past will become alive. Individual events from history will gain consciousness

[Raider5678]

On 1/13/2018 at 10:09 PM, DevilSolution said:

However can this curve continue? For every job a robot replaces a new job must be created to fill the gap, not only do all replaced jobs need replacing with something new but also the exponential growth of humanity also requires an unprecedented amount of currently unknown jobs to be created.

1

Imagine two horses sitting in 1919.

Named Tom and Jerry.

 

Tom: I'm worried about these new cars. They're gonna take our jobs.

Jerry: Dude. Don't worry. Technology has always made our lives easier. Remember riding into war? Remember pulling those super heavy plows?  Remember all that really hard work we used to do? Now we have these nice jobs pulling these light carriages. Technology has always made our lives easier. Even if our current job is taken over by auto mobiles, there will be new jobs we can't even dream of!

Tom: You're right. Thanks for making me feel better.

 

 

Horse population peaks in 1920 and starts a downward trend for the following 90 years.

Horses had muscle. Mechanical muscles replaced them pretty rapidly because of how efficient they were.

Yet this story also has another premise.

"Better technology makes better jobs for horses."

It sounds ridiculous to even say aloud. Yet, if you replace horses with humans in that sentence, suddenly it sounds familiar and logical.

Mechanical muscles replaced horses. 

If mechanical minds keep progressing at the current rate, they'll replace a lot of human jobs. Not all of them, but a massive amount of them.

 

 

-

Curtosey of CPG grey.

 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Thomasmariel said:

In the future, it seems logical that the past will become alive. Individual events from history will gain consciousness

I think you're using a different definition for "logical", "alive", and "consciousness" than the rest of us are. This is a science discussion forum, so we're using the accepted definitions. What are you using? How are you defining these words?

[Moontanman]

Matrioshka Brains are our future, it's the logical end game of all biological/technological life... 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrioshka_brain

[Sensei]

The future of humans...

...is not bright...

 

[StringJunky]

5 minutes ago, Sensei said:

The future of humans...

...is not bright...

 

...It's orange

[Sensei]

Robots taking human jobs, is meaningless problem. Simply there will be no money. Everything will be for free. Without money there will be no robbery, no thieves, no other crimes with unauthorized taking somebody money and/or property. So there will be no prisons either.

There will be no inequality. At least not due to being rich or poor.

But still there can be inequality due to access to knowledge, and personal willingness to learn (and mental retardation making learning impossible).

Imagine, somebody is learning programming, robotics, etc. and building his/her own robot. And telling him "build this for me", "do this for me".. And robot is doing it.. Repeat as many times as there is people around the world. It's impossible to sell anything to anybody, because they can tell their own robot(s) to do the same, without having to buy it from somebody else..

You can have it now. Just buy 3D printer (or better, build you own). But you will have to model thing that will be printed. You can print parts of robots in 3D printer and join with Arduino, and control it from laptop.

Do you want to have house? No need to take 30y loan, no need to hire team of workers. Just build robot building house like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YcrO8ONcfY

Money, job, career, motivates people to get out of house every day (and not being evicted and become homeless), and do something with their life. Sometimes that thing they do is also useful for entire community. Sometimes it's exactly reverse (like somebody eviction from house).

Without money, there are needed smarter motivating mechanism for people to do something instead of watching TV on their lounge the all day long. or simply they have to be 'aware'.

 

[EdEarl]

The transition from current society to the society of abundance provided by robots may be difficult for people until there are enough robots to actually provide everything people need, and governments do not interfere .

[Endy0816]

Scarcity will continue to exist.

We'll still require some sort of economic system to determine how we allocate resources.

[EdEarl]

11 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

Scarcity will continue to exist.

We'll still require some sort of economic system to determine how we allocate resources.

Why, robots run farms, transport produce, prepare produce, deliver food to people just in time for meals. All we need is an app to order what we want.

If you think the current owners of property will prevent this system, consider what an AI in control of all the robots can do to minimize people interfering. Will those people actually declare war on the bots to prevent farms being run, transportation and distribution?

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by EdEarl

[dimreepr]

36 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

Scarcity will continue to exist.

We'll still require some sort of economic system to determine how we allocate resources.

It's not about scarcity, it's about equality and our current economic system is not up to the job. Unfettered capitalism is a race to the bottom; making money without investing in people, is just kicking the can down the road (after feeding on the contents) in the hope that someone else will pick it up.

42 minutes ago, EdEarl said:

The transition from current society to the society of abundance provided by robots may be difficult for people until there are enough robots to actually provide everything people need, and governments do not interfere .

1

 

26 minutes ago, EdEarl said:

Why, robots run farms, transport produce, prepare produce, deliver food to people just in time for meals. All we need is an app to order what we want.

 

Who gives you the app?

Edited January 18, 2018 by dimreepr

[EdEarl]

11 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Who gives you the app?

The bots.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, EdEarl said:

The bots.

Who programs the bots? 

[EdEarl]

After the singularity, bots program bots. The singularity means that AI and robots are better at doing all the things we do now.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, EdEarl said:

After the singularity, bots program bots. The singularity means that AI and robots are better at doing all the things we do now.

If we allow the current system to remain until the singularity, the bots will have a bias that being better won't eliminate. My point is, if we rely on capitalism as it stands without a governed control, we'll be no better off as a society. 

[EdEarl]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

If we allow the current system to remain until the singularity, the bots will have a bias that being better won't eliminate. My point is, if we rely on capitalism as it stands without a governed control, we'll be no better off as a society. 

I'm with you to provide controls on capitalism. However, it seems unlikely we the people of the US will regain control, but I'd like to be surprised. Otherwise, the transition from capitalism's forced scarcities to automation abundance will be traumatic. I think the people in control will not like to give up control. According to history, they can be vicious. Fortunately, AGI will be smarter, and will be able to control them. Perhaps the control will be subtle and the oligarchs will think they are still in charge. Humanity no longer be in total control of their destiny. Instead, the AI presence will control or partly control us.

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, EdEarl said:

I'm with you to provide controls on capitalism. However, it seems unlikely we the people of the US will regain control, but I'd like to be surprised. Otherwise, the transition from capitalism's forced scarcities to automation abundance will be traumatic. I think the people in control will not like to give up control. According to history, they can be vicious. Fortunately, AGI will be smarter, and will be able to control them. Perhaps the control will be subtle and the oligarchs will think they are still in charge. Humanity no longer be in total control of their destiny. Instead, the AI presence will control or partly control us.

Sounds like something Hari Seldon would say.

“Any fool can tell a crisis when it arrives. The real service to the state is to detect it in embryo.” 
― Isaac Asimov

[EdEarl]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Sounds like something Hari Seldon would say.

“Any fool can tell a crisis when it arrives. The real service to the state is to detect it in embryo.” 
― Isaac Asimov

I'm rereading the foundation series now. I don't know if anything can be done; except, understanding vibrations in the force may improve one's enjoyment.