Is space itself conductive?

[trevorjohnson32]

Just wondering what people think.

[beecee]

Are you referring to the way heat is "transported"? If so, we have three methods...conduction, convection and radiation. Heat is transmitted through space by the latter....radiation

[trevorjohnson32]

21 minutes ago, beecee said:

Are you referring to the way heat is "transported"? If so, we have three methods...conduction, convection and radiation. Heat is transmitted through space by the latter....radiation

I'm asking if it can conduct electricity.

[Strange]

No. Conduction requires free electrons (or other charge carriers). 

[zapatos]

My understanding is that 'conduction' is a term that describes material objects. Since space is not a material object, it cannot "conduct".

[trevorjohnson32]

Then how come you can create arcing in a vacuum jar?

[John Cuthber]

15 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

Then how come you can create arcing in a vacuum jar?

You can't.

However, you can have conduction in a much lower pressure than the air around us.

[studiot]

Quote

Is space itself conductive?

 

1 hour ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

I'm asking if it can conduct electricity.

This is not an easy question to answer.

Space itself has a natural impedance of 377 ohms, capacitive.

This means that the real part of the impedance (that is the resistive part)  is zero.
However the conductance is also zero.

So whilst free space does not conduct electricity in the same manner as copper wire, it does not obstruct it either.

That is how electron beam device such as cathode ray tubes and beam tetrodes work.

These can pass very large currents.

Edited January 16, 2018 by studiot

[MigL]

Arcing requires charge carriers to 'jump' across a potential gap.
You can have a potential field in space, but unless you have charge carriers, nothing is being conducted.

x-posted with Studiot

[trevorjohnson32]

See, this is consistently the problem with most of the people here. You guys may or may not be right, but you speak like arrogant bastards in a language that you understand, and I'm left to call it indecipherable word salad.

I know what arcing is. The question is if it travels through empty space without any other medium, then does that make space conductive?

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

See, this is consistently the problem with most of the people here. You guys may or may not be right, but you speak like arrogant bastards in a language that you understand, and I'm left to call it indecipherable word salad.

Maybe, instead of getting annoyed you could just ask about the bits that you don't understand? I'm sure people will be happy to explain further. For example:

6 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

I know what arcing is. The question is if it travels through empty space without any other medium, then does that make space conductive?

Arcing doesn't happen in empty space. There needs to be at least a small amount of gas present. The electric field can then separate the atoms into icons and electrons - both of these can then carry the current as an electric arc. 

I assume there is some relationship between the density of the gas and the voltage needed to cause arcing but that is beyond my knowledge!

[swansont]

7 minutes ago, Strange said:

 I assume there is some relationship between the density of the gas and the voltage needed to cause arcing but that is beyond my knowledge!

There is indeed. Paschen's Law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

See, this is consistently the problem with most of the people here. You guys may or may not be right, but you speak like arrogant bastards in a language that you understand, and I'm left to call it indecipherable word salad.

 

There is nothing I like better than to offer an answer to a question, then to be called a bastard because the answer didn't meet the standards expected.

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, zapatos said:

There is nothing I like better than to offer an answer to a question, then to be called a bastard because the answer didn't meet the standards expected.

You've come to the right place then.

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

See, this is consistently the problem with most of the people here. You guys may or may not be right, but you speak like arrogant bastards in a language that you understand, and I'm left to call it indecipherable word salad.

You're asking questions about phenomena that "most of the people here" have studied and are familiar with. They ARE right, because they studied mainstream science and learned to apply the definitions, terms, and processes according to a proven methodology. Science is all about what's been observed, so it's not like they're making it up and requiring you to know it. You can choose to study in a consistent way, or you can try to put together the puzzle of the universe without any directions. And it's a jigsaw puzzle cut from the layers of an onion. They all fit together but we're always finding new layers and better pieces.

You did the right thing this time, asking questions instead of making things up and claiming they're true. Now you need to learn that when your knowledge is incomplete, some answers don't seem intuitive. That's when you ask more questions about them. People here will answer honest questions all day long.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

See, this is consistently the problem with most of the people here. You guys may or may not be right, but you speak like arrogant bastards in a language that you understand, and I'm left to call it indecipherable word salad.

When you come to science-land, it helps to speak the language.

But I'm unsure why Strange's answer was unclear or counts as word salad. 

[koti]

2 hours ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

....like arrogant bastards in a language that you understand, and I'm left to call it indecipherable word salad.

I know what arcing is. The question is if it travels through empty space without any other medium, then does that make space conductive?

No.

Is that comprehensible enough for you? If you want reasons read the posts above again.

[trevorjohnson32]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

Arcing doesn't happen in empty space. There needs to be at least a small amount of gas present. The electric field can then separate the atoms into icons and electrons - both of these can then carry the current as an electric arc. 

do you have a source on this? I'm reading something different the more I look into it.

[John Cuthber]

3 hours ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

The question is if it travels through empty space without any other medium, then does that make space conductive?

As I said; it doesn't, so the question makes no sense.

 

[trevorjohnson32]

Sorry guys not buying it I'm reading ; "Yes electricity can "travel" through vacuum. But no one calls it arcing because there is no glow (no particles that can get excited -> no photons -> no glow, just invisible electrons).
Vacuum tubes for example make use of electricity that is traveling through vacuum."

 

Not to interupt your backscratching butt sniffing party or anything.

[studiot]

5 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

do you have a source on this? I'm reading something different the more I look into it.

Strange was correct.

I offered the beginnings of a reply, but you need to understand that the subject is bigger and wider than you give it credit for.

I didn't mention arcing.

So if you would like to describe as clearly and fully as you can exactly what phenomenon you are thinking of, perhaps we can help you after all.

[beecee]

9 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

Sorry guys not buying it I'm reading ; "Yes electricity can "travel" through vacuum. But no one calls it arcing because there is no glow (no particles that can get excited -> no photons -> no glow, just invisible electrons).
Vacuum tubes for example make use of electricity that is traveling through vacuum."

 

Not to interupt your backscratching butt sniffing party or anything.

Electricity by definition is the flow of electrons. Space, or a total vacuum, does not conduct electricity. But sometimes if the electromotive force, [Voltage] is strong enough then it can "shoot"electrons across a limited distance that maybe a vacuum.

 

PS: Just a request from an old retired lay person, why don't you get rid of the chip on your shoulder? ...or discard whatever agenda you have...Or whatever it is that makes you so aggressive and using such abusive language. 

 

 

[Sensei]

3 hours ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

The question is if it travels through empty space without any other medium, then does that make space conductive?

Through vacuum e.g. free electrons can flow. They can be emitted by e.g. electron gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_gun

ps. Very unpleasant reply from you, directed at people who are trying to help you..

24 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

(no particles that can get excited -> no photons -> no glow, just invisible electrons).

When accelerated particle changes direction, it can emit photon and slow down. It's called Bremsstrahlung

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung

Eventually cyclotron radiation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron_radiation

 

[Phi for All]

28 minutes ago, trevorjohnson32 said:

Not to interupt your backscratching butt sniffing party or anything.

Feeling left out? Try listening instead of lashing out. Ignorance doesn't have to be a lasting condition.

[Thomasmariel]

Space is in-between. In-between is internal. 

 

Internal is less power. Less power would imply that space doesn't conduct anything