Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 630 × 354 - motherjones.com - Jeb Bush's height is listed as 6'3 - Don King, George H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton are all listed as 6'2 - Obama is listed as 6'1 I understand that this is stupid and conspiratorial - to claim the Trump and his doctor are lying about Trump's height . I also understand that the above photos are not empirical proof of anything as camera angle, shoes, posture, and etc all impact how tall someone looks. That said I am troubled by the idea that a military doctor would bold face lie to the public. It troubles me that I can't trust anything that comes from my govt. Even something silly as Trump's height. Trump has been a public figure for decades. He has been photographed standing next to millions of people. If we look at any number of those photos over the decades it is plainly obvious Donald Trump is not 6'3. Jeb Bush is 6'3 and Jeb Bush has been next to Trump numerous at debates and is clearly taller. We all saw it time and time again. If the doctor lied about Trump's height can we trust anything the doctor said? Does it matter or should the Presidents doctor be able to just lie? Or do you guys believe Trump is 6'3? 4608 × 3072 - vox.com
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 Navy Rear Adm. Ronny L. Jackson is the White House's Doctor. Is he lying and if so is that even legal? Can a Navy Rear Admiral knowingly lie to the public? Obviously they can conceal information in the best interest of national security but I struggle to understand how lying about the President's height is in the best interest of national security. It really pisses me off that this administration is so fundamentally dishonest that they'd lie about something so irrelevant.
StringJunky Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, Ten oz said: Navy Rear Adm. Ronny L. Jackson is the White House's Doctor. Is he lying and if so is that even legal? Can a Navy Rear Admiral knowingly lie to the public? Obviously they can conceal information in the best interest of national security but I struggle to understand how lying about the President's height is in the best interest of national security. It really pisses me off that this administration is so fundamentally dishonest that they'd lie about something so irrelevant. Or lies are being told about Jeb Bush's height, so, he'd be about 6'6. I didn't think Trump was even a six-footer.
swansont Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Trump's NYS driver's license lists him at 6'2" https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-drivers-license-height-232948
Sensei Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Send him to outer space.. He will grow up.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/astronaut-japan-grow-space-international-station-norishige-kanai-lieutenant-a8149871.html "Japanese astronaut grows in space and now says he's worried he won't properly fit in the capsule bringing him back". "Lieutenant Norishige Kanai said that he has stretched out during his time on the International Space Station (ISS). The extra 9cm he has gained since he arrived on December has left him worried he won't squeeze into the small space of the Soyuz capsule, which is set to carry him back down to Earth." Edited January 19, 2018 by Sensei
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, StringJunky said: Or lies are being told about Jeb Bush's height, so, he'd be about 6'6. I didn't think Trump was even a six-footer. Looking at photos of Trump in public over the decades it appears he is probably 5'11 or 6 feet even. I am 6 feet even measured in bare feet to the top of my bald head. In shoes most people take me for 6'1. I Saw Obama in person back in 2012. He walked past me at an event. I took him to be the same height as I am. From the photos and videos I have seen Trump is clearly not any taller than Obama. Actually considering Trump has the big puffy hair and Obama doesn't I would assume Trump is half an inch shorter than Obama. To my best guess that makes Trump shy of 6 feet. Definitely not 6'3. Again, I don't care how tall Trump is in and of itself. I don't care Trump lies about his height. Lost of people lie about they height. I am upset that a Navy Rear Admiral came out and lied about Trump's height.
StringJunky Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Ten oz said: Looking at photos of Trump in public over the decades it appears he is probably 5'11 or 6 feet even. I am 6 feet even measured in bare feet to the top of my bald head. In shoes most people take me for 6'1. I Saw Obama in person back in 2012. He walked past me at an event. I took him to be the same height as I am. From the photos and videos I have seen Trump is clearly not any taller than Obama. Actually considering Trump has the big puffy hair and Obama doesn't I would assume Trump is half an inch shorter than Obama. To my best guess that makes Trump shy of 6 feet. Definitely not 6'3. Again, I don't care how tall Trump is in and of itself. I don't care Trump lies about his height. Lost of people lie about they height. I am upset that a Navy Rear Admiral came out and lied about Trump's height. If they'll lie about something so trivial, they''ll lie about anything.
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, swansont said: Trump's NYS driver's license lists him at 6'2" https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-drivers-license-height-232948 As does his draft card. However one is measure at DMV. At least I have never been measured at DMV. They always just ask me what my height and weight are and enter that as my height and weight. Given Trump's long history of exaggeration and vanity it is easy to believe he has been rounding his height up higher for years. Just now, StringJunky said: If they'll lie about something so trivial, they''ll lie about anything. The Navy Admiral should be on the outside of that though. He isn't one of Trump's hand picked political loyalists. I find it a bit breath taking that the Doctor would lie. We can't trust anything apparently. I mean absolutely nothing and no one.
swansont Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, Ten oz said: The Navy Admiral should be on the outside of that though. He isn't one of Trump's hand picked political loyalists. I find it a bit breath taking that the Doctor would lie. We can't trust anything apparently. I mean absolutely nothing and no one. What would he do if given an order from the commander-in-chief?
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, swansont said: What would he do if given an order from the commander-in-chief? Per the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) Article 90 one must obey all lawful orders. Key word being lawful. I don't believe it an order to lie about ones height is a Lawful order. "The order must relate to military duty, which includes all activities reasonably necessary to accomplish a military mission, or safeguard or promote the morale, discipline, and usefulness of members of a unit and directly with the maintenance of good order in the armed forces. MCM, pt. IV, 14c(2)(a)(iii). The order can affect otherwise private activity. United States v. McDaniels , 50 M.J. 407 (C.A.A.F. 1999) (order to not drive personal vehicle after diagnosis of narcolepsy); United States v. Hill , 49 M.J. 242 (C.A.A.F. 1999) (no- contact order issued by military police had valid military purpose of maintaining good order and discipline in the military community and to protect the alleged victim while during the investigation); United States v. Padgett , 48 M.J. 273 (C.A.A.F. 1998) (order requiring 25-year- old service member to terminate his romantic relationship with 14-year-old girl had valid military purpose); United States v. Milldebrandt , 25 C.M.R. 139 (C.M.A. 1958) (order to report, while on leave, financial conditions unrelated to the military did not have valid military purpose). An order that has for its sole object a private end is unlawful, but an order that benefits the command as well as serving individuals is lawful. United States v. Robinson , 20 C.M.R. 63 (C.M.A. 1955) (use of enlisted personnel in Officers’ Open Mess at Fort McNair)." http://www.ucmjdefense.com/resources/military-offenses/the-lawfulness-of-orders.html
swansont Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, Ten oz said: Per the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) Article 90 one must obey all lawful orders. Key word being lawful. I don't believe it an order to lie about ones height is a Lawful order. "The order must relate to military duty, which includes all activities reasonably necessary to accomplish a military mission, or safeguard or promote the morale, discipline, and usefulness of members of a unit and directly with the maintenance of good order in the armed forces. MCM, pt. IV, 14c(2)(a)(iii). The order can affect otherwise private activity. United States v. McDaniels , 50 M.J. 407 (C.A.A.F. 1999) (order to not drive personal vehicle after diagnosis of narcolepsy); United States v. Hill , 49 M.J. 242 (C.A.A.F. 1999) (no- contact order issued by military police had valid military purpose of maintaining good order and discipline in the military community and to protect the alleged victim while during the investigation); United States v. Padgett , 48 M.J. 273 (C.A.A.F. 1998) (order requiring 25-year- old service member to terminate his romantic relationship with 14-year-old girl had valid military purpose); United States v. Milldebrandt , 25 C.M.R. 139 (C.M.A. 1958) (order to report, while on leave, financial conditions unrelated to the military did not have valid military purpose). An order that has for its sole object a private end is unlawful, but an order that benefits the command as well as serving individuals is lawful. United States v. Robinson , 20 C.M.R. 63 (C.M.A. 1955) (use of enlisted personnel in Officers’ Open Mess at Fort McNair)." http://www.ucmjdefense.com/resources/military-offenses/the-lawfulness-of-orders.html One has to be willing to take the risk that the order will be seen as unlawful, and endure the repercussions of saying "No" to the president. (we currently have several hundred elected federal officials who are apparently not). So one would have to be rock-solid in assessing that such an order was "not benefitting the command" Basically, is RDML Jackson ready to retire while he risks court-martial?
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, swansont said: One has to be willing to take the risk that the order will be seen as unlawful, and endure the repercussions of saying "No" to the president. (we currently have several hundred elected federal officials who are apparently not). So one would have to be rock-solid in assessing that such an order was "not benefitting the command" Basically, is RDML Jackson ready to retire while he risks court-martial? If the senior brass isn't willing to refuse unlawful orders than we are all f@*&^%. He could have just said Trump's health is good but that he won't discuss specific details which aren't relevant to the public. Trump's height isn't actually important. The Doctors willingness to lie over something so trivial is very disheartening. I also don't believe he would have gone to court martial for saying no as that would only create a public record of him stating under oath Trump ordered him to lie. At worst he'd be forced to retire at the end of his current tour which is likely to happen anyway given the attrition rates of senior commissioned personnel. Either way the Doctor had a duty to not lie.
DanTrentfield Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ten oz said: 630 × 354 - motherjones.com - Jeb Bush's height is listed as 6'3 - Don King, George H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton are all listed as 6'2 - Obama is listed as 6'1 I understand that this is stupid and conspiratorial - to claim the Trump and his doctor are lying about Trump's height . I also understand that the above photos are not empirical proof of anything as camera angle, shoes, posture, and etc all impact how tall someone looks. That said I am troubled by the idea that a military doctor would bold face lie to the public. It troubles me that I can't trust anything that comes from my govt. Even something silly as Trump's height. Trump has been a public figure for decades. He has been photographed standing next to millions of people. If we look at any number of those photos over the decades it is plainly obvious Donald Trump is not 6'3. Jeb Bush is 6'3 and Jeb Bush has been next to Trump numerous at debates and is clearly taller. We all saw it time and time again. If the doctor lied about Trump's height can we trust anything the doctor said? Does it matter or should the Presidents doctor be able to just lie? Or do you guys believe Trump is 6'3? 4608 × 3072 - vox.com All I have to say is: Really? With near revolution being drummed up by people and mass murders you're concerned with the height and weight of a president. Who ever cared about Obama's height? Who ever cared about Bush's height? The fact of the matter is: Why should you care? And while I share your concern with not trusting the government, I do trust the president specifically because he promotes America First. Not white America, not Black America, America. America is made up of both and all other races, which is why I simply love the man. And while people are saying "The wall is a symbol of hate and will do nothing" it will do this: It will make crossing the border illegally less feasible and so cause more people to immigrate legally, "But what if they dig tunnels?" Short of placing landmines on the border or building the wall from bedrock up we can't do anything about that but that is still a LOT of trouble to immigrate illegally, and makes it so that in most instances only the most hardened criminals with reasons to stay undocumented do it. You see the wall is not to stop people from coming in, rather it's to make them come in legally for two reasons: Firstly so that they are paid at least minimum wage instead of pennies on the dollar, (No documents means that if you go to court for this they just deport you) and secondly so that the wave of people coming in don't take jobs from citizens because who are you going to hire if you can get away with it and don't care, me working for minimum wage, or Jose who you cheat out of minimum wage and pay him $2.00 an hour instead? This helps both sides because while yes, it does make it so that immigration is harder and takes longer, it forces Mexico to keep it's people, who then while they are sitting there push to fix some of their own problems. This is why Trump is actually being extremely intelligent in his decision, and why you should trust him. You can find the exact same problem of people just heading for the hills and letting drug rings and terrorists overtake their nations in the middle east. While I don't blame them for running frankly who is going to stop them if you don't? Which is why no matter what I am staying in my country, whether it be the French Revolution 2.0 or whether we get an oligarchy that is oppressive. 21 minutes ago, Ten oz said: If the senior brass isn't willing to refuse unlawful orders than we are all f@*&^%. He could have just said Trump's health is good but that he won't discuss specific details which aren't relevant to the public. Trump's height isn't actually important. The Doctors willingness to lie over something so trivial is very disheartening. I also don't believe he would have gone to court martial for saying no as that would only create a public record of him stating under oath Trump ordered him to lie. At worst he'd be forced to retire at the end of his current tour which is likely to happen anyway given the attrition rates of senior commissioned personnel. Either way the Doctor had a duty to not lie. Lie? What evidence? You do know anybody can just drum up a public record and release it right? Freedom of speech. While it is impersonation and is in some instances a crime, anybody can do it. It's called propaganda. And to completely justify America First, Putin puts Russia first, as does every single functional nation in the world. Europe is not really functional unless you count Eastern Europe because they have massive debt and are generally broken. Nationalism is great until it becomes oppressive of other nations. But if those nations declare themselves our enemies then we have a right and duty to honorably fight them until we win or they win, and be fair to the people of the conquered nation as there is always a losing side and to lose is not to be weak or be immoral. While you may be punished for crimes you commit (Nazi Germany for example) you should not be oppressive to any nation (Look what the Weimar republic turned into....) Edited January 19, 2018 by DanTrentfield
John Cuthber Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 36 minutes ago, swansont said: "The order must relate to military duty, which includes all activities reasonably necessary to accomplish a military mission, or safeguard or promote the morale, discipline, and usefulness of members of a unit and directly with the maintenance of good order in the armed forces. Trump is narcissistic enough to think that anything that threatens his God given presidency would "relate to ... the maintenance of good order in the armed forces."
Phi for All Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said: All I have to say is: Really? With near revolution being drummed up by people and mass murders you're concerned with the height and weight of a president. Who ever cared about Obama's height? Who ever cared about Bush's height? The fact of the matter is: Why should you care? FFS, Ten oz said OVER AND OVER AND OVER that the height (didn't mention weight AT ALL) was NOT the concern. The concern is why would the navy doctor lie about it, and what else was incorrectly reported? Don't make me bring out the stuffed animals.
DanTrentfield Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: Trump is narcissistic enough to think that anything that threatens his God given presidency would "relate to ... the maintenance of good order in the armed forces." Because he has to preserve the office of the president, if anybody can threaten the office and not receive response then the president and by consequence America is a joke. 1 minute ago, Phi for All said: FFS, Ten oz said OVER AND OVER AND OVER that the height (didn't mention weight AT ALL) was NOT the concern. The concern is why would the navy doctor lie about it, and what else was incorrectly reported? Don't make me bring out the stuffed animals. I realized that and addressed it. But I also addressed the idiotic reason for this coming up in the first place. The fact of the matter is: With the news not being news and being Journalism, (Which is opinion on news not straight news) If I was an editor wasn't patriotic and was being paid to do so I would totally put out that the doctor lied under oath from Trump. What I'm saying is that it has a 90% probability of being nothing more than propaganda which somebody edited in. As with all news. Also I must ask, Stuffed animals?
Phi for All Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said: I realized that and addressed it. No, you didn't. You started right off saying "All I have to say is... [I can't believe you're so concerned with] the height of the president". You didn't mention the doctor, not even once. You went off into a defense of Trump's overt racism, claiming he works for all Americans despite all the mountains of evidence to the contrary. 7 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said: Also I must ask, Stuffed animals? Apparently, WH aides have to use props and graphs and other visual aids to present information to Trump in a way he'll understand. He won't read written reports, and listens to nobody but cable newscasters. This is very clearly documented.
rangerx Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 They claimed he was 6'3"" 239 lbs because at 6'2"", he would be considered obese.
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said: All I have to say is: Really? With near revolution being drummed up by people and mass murders you're concerned with the height and weight of a president Nope, I suggest you read through this thread. I have repeated said Trump's height (I haven't even mentioned his weight) is irrelevant. I am upset about a Navy Rear Admiral following an unlawful order to lie. 3 minutes ago, rangerx said: They claimed he was 6'3"" 239 lbs because at 6'2"", he would be considered obese. The White House's doctor is a political appointee. Trump asking them to lie is unlawful. Them lying is unlawful. it is a problem. From Trump asking Comey to let the stuff with Flynn go to him tweet about the Justice Department investigating his political rivals there is a serious pattern here of Trump abusing his position and those around him kowtowing. It is a serious problem.
Phi for All Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, rangerx said: They claimed he was 6'3"" 239 lbs because at 6'2"", he would be considered obese. I wondered about that myself. I also wondered if they used the new blood pressure guidelines that place the danger zone a little lower?
Raider5678 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) LMGTFY Google doesn't lie(*rolls eyes*) Case closed. 28 minutes ago, Ten oz said: Nope, I suggest you read through this thread. I have repeated said Trump's height (I haven't even mentioned his weight) is irrelevant. I am upset about a Navy Rear Admiral following an unlawful order to lie. 2 He was ordered to lie? Citation? I mean, come on. I understand you're not worried so much about his height as the alleged lying, but is there really that much proof they did lie? Pictures are definitely not reliable. Unless you can prove to me using shadow lengths of both characters and reconstruct a 3d room like some people can to tell us his height exactly, then I don't trust them. Additionally, as you mentioned, shoes, hair, posture, etc. Additionally, his drivers' license and white house physical are two different things. For all you know, the measuring tape on the wall was half an inch off for his driver's license and they just rounded down instead of saying 6' 2.51" and the white house rounded up. Additionally, you don't know if the guy at the driver's license place simply looked at the measuring tape wrong, etc. There are just too many unknown variables, that we can't conclude any hard evidence from this. On top of that, of all the things he's lied about, this is what shatters your faith in the government? Edited January 19, 2018 by Raider5678
Sensei Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Whether he has 188 cm or 190.5 cm does not matter. What matters is what he has between ears.. 1
Phi for All Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sensei said: What matters is what he has between ears.. And the professional who could tell us that lied about T's height to make him appear healthier to the public. Interesting how right-leaners see this as a matter of how tall the president really is. Left-leaners are questioning the validity of the checkup.
Ten oz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Raider5678 said: LMGTFY Google doesn't lie(*rolls eyes*) Case closed. He was ordered to lie? Citation? I am not claiming he he was ordered. Rather my responses regarding him following unlawful orders was playing out if he had been. I do not pretend to know his motives for lying.
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