Trump's height/medical exam

[rangerx]

10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I wondered about that myself. I also wondered if they used the new blood pressure guidelines that place the danger zone a little lower?

Perhaps, but it's not the only inconsistency with the doctor's assessment.

Trump's LDL cholesterol is high (143, where 100 is high normal) despite active treatment with Crestor. Trump also has a high score indicating coronary atherosclerosis.

Any doctor worthy of their Hippocratic oath would suggest Trump presents as obese with non-clinical heart disease at moderate risk for heart attack or stroke.

[Sensei]

I am not feeling good with all this narration that he lied. Simply, if you'll be measured when you're lying on the bed, you will get different result, than standing straight..

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=height+lying+down+vs.+standing

 

..or measure at the morning and at the night..

..or like I showed in my initial post article, astronaut "grew" up +9 cm in cosmic space..

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

8 minutes ago, Sensei said:

I am not feeling good with all this narration that he lied. Simply, if you'll be measured when you're lying on the bed, you will get different result, than standing straight..

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=height+lying+down+vs.+standing

 

..or measure at the morning and at the night..

Doctors in the US don't measure height horizontally. You stand, usually on a scale for weight, and your height is measured at the same time. If you're using height in your indexes for body mass, you should be in bare or stocking feet, not shoes. Trump is obviously not as tall as the doctor claims, may not be as tall as Google claims (which is an inch shorter than the doctor, and puts Trump into obesity range). We know Trump lies, but the doctor has quite obviously "fudged" the report in Trump's favor, to avoid unhealthy classifications. What other measurements got "fudged"? 

[rangerx]

Middle aged to geriatric adults become shorter too. I have a life long history with arthritis. My driver's license  states, 6'0", but my last check up revealed I'm actually 5'10".

[Raider5678]

22 minutes ago, rangerx said:

Perhaps, but it's not the only inconsistency with the doctor's assessment.

Trump's LDL cholesterol is high (143, where 100 is high normal) despite active treatment with Crestor. Trump also has a high score indicating coronary atherosclerosis.

Any doctor worthy of their Hippocratic oath would suggest Trump presents as obese with non-clinical heart disease at moderate risk for heart attack or stroke.

Do you realize virtually no doctor ever takes the Hippocratic oath? That has absolutely no meaning to me.

There is a LOT more to diagnosing someone with coronary atherosclerosis then simply seeing they have high blood pressure. 

Additionally, how do you know the doctor didn't suggest that to Trump and simply not put it down?

 

A lot of people like to play doctor because they googled some stuff.

They say if you have this and this, you must have this. They say if your blood pressure is this much about this, you must have this.

We're not the doctor. We were not there. You CANNOT diagnose someone simply by looking at their weight, height, and blood pressure. 

 

The human body is not that simple. Yet, people pretend that it is. And I feel like you've fallen for the internet myth of being able to diagnose someone just by knowing two things about them.

 

[Ten oz]

17 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Pictures are definitely not reliable. Unless you can prove to me using shadow lengths of both characters and reconstruct a 3d room like some people can to tell us his height exactly, then I don't trust them. Additionally, as you mentioned, shoes, hair, posture, etc

Trump has been photographed and recorded millions of times over the decades. He has made thousands of public appears throughout his life. There are countless photos and videos of him standing next to other famous people who have known heights. Trump is obviously not 6'3. If we only had a hundred pictures or a single short video to look at than maybe one could say he is just wearing flat shoes or is photographed at a bad angle but decades of countless photos...come on. Jeb Bush and Trump participated together in 8 debates during the primary. You are arguing that at every debate Jeb Bush was just wearing shoes that made him look taller or that the video crew titled the camera in a way that made Trump appear shorter? It isn't like I am claiming Trump is actually 5'3 or some crazy number of inches below 6'3; just that he obviously isn't 6'3. I would prefer to not litter the thread with links to videos and photos but there are millions out there. Trump appears to just a little short than everyone listed as 6'2 he stands next to from entertainers like Steve Harvey to other politicians like Mitt Romney. I find it next to impossible that video and photos would consistently be wrong over and over for decades.

[Raider5678]

24 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Doctors in the US don't measure height horizontally. You stand, usually on a scale for weight, and your height is measured at the same time. If you're using height in your indexes for body mass, you should be in bare or stocking feet, not shoes. Trump is obviously not as tall as the doctor claims, may not be as tall as Google claims (which is an inch shorter than the doctor, and puts Trump into obesity range). We know Trump lies, but the doctor has quite obviously "fudged" the report in Trump's favor, to avoid unhealthy classifications. What other measurements got "fudged"? 

Huh. That's funny. Where I'm at we don't even take our shoes off. 

And I'm in the US.

Again, previous arguments by sensei and I point to the simple fact there are a lot of variables you'd have to consider. Pictures are NOT an accurate representation.

Additionally, how do you know it's not the driver's license that was wrong?

 

Ultimately, I feel like there are much more important things for the media to focus on. But whatever grabs the headlines........

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Raider5678

[Ten oz]

9 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Huh. That's funny. Where I'm at we don't even take our shoes off. 

And I'm in the US.

Again, previous arguments by sensei and I point to the simple fact there are a lot of variables you'd have to consider. Pictures are NOT an accurate representation.

Additionally, how do you know it's not the driver's license that was wrong?

 

Again, you are arguing that decades worth of videos and photo ops have misrepresented his actually height. Form his tan, his hair, his use of non-disclosure agreements, and etc Trump is very protective of his imagine yet he has ignored decades worth of bad lighting making him look short? I understand you are taking the plausible deniability angle here but it seems as though with Trump that is all anyone is ever doing. Trump's nominee for DHS Kristjen Nielsen went so far as to suggest she wasn't sure if Norway was a predominantly white country while being questioned by the Senate FFS.  It is all just Gish Gallop. 

[Raider5678]

4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Trump's nominee for DHS Kristjen Nielsen went so far as to suggest she wasn't sure if Norway was a predominantly white country while being questioned by the Senate FFS.  It is all just Gish Gallop. 

 

What does this have to do with it?

 

4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Again, you are arguing that decades worth of videos and photo ops have misrepresented his actually height. Form his tan, his hair, his use of non-disclosure agreements, and etc Trump is very protective of his imagine yet he has ignored decades worth of bad lighting making him look short? I understand you are taking the plausible deniability angle here but it seems as though with Trump that is all anyone is ever doing. 

2

Google has photos showing where Trump appears taller than people who are supposed to be taller than him.

Sure, decades of photos make him seem shorter. If you pick out all the ones that don't make him seem shorter.

 

Now, I'll gladly link several photos if you insist, but in the effort of not clogging this thread with images, you could google them yourself.

 

Additionally, I don't really care about this thread anymore.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Raider5678

[Ten oz]

3 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

What does this have to do with it?

Because it is akin to what you are doing. No one can prove whether or not she knows Norway is a majority white country because no know can read her mind so there is plausible deniable there. Maybe she was being serious, right? Just as I can't hop the fence at the White House and put a tape measure next to Trump. It is all just a bit of gamesmanship meant to obfuscate his ongoing abuses of authority and lies.........Maybe there really was record turnout at the inauguration too; after all we can't trust our own lying eyes. 

[Raider5678]

4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Because it is akin to what you are doing. No one can prove whether or not she knows Norway is a majority white country because no know can read her mind so there is plausible deniable there. Maybe she was being serious, right? Just as I can't hop the fence at the White House and put a tape measure next to Trump. It is all just a bit of gamesmanship meant to obfuscate his ongoing abuses of authority and lies.........Maybe there really was record turnout at the inauguration too; after all we can't trust our own lying eyes. 

I believe our definitions of plausible deniability are very different.

[Ten oz]

Just now, Raider5678 said:

I believe our definitions of plausible deniability are very different.

I have no doubt about it. 

[Raider5678]

Just now, Ten oz said:

I have no doubt about it. 

Alright. So while your definition of plausible deniability is someone not being able to answer a question but we don't know if she actually knew or not. 

My definition does not include that.

[rangerx]

3 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

There is a LOT more to diagnosing someone with coronary atherosclerosis then simply seeing they have high blood pressure.

Who said anything about hypertension?

And FYI, being senior in years I am acutely aware of what  arterial plaque is so don't preach about Googling, when clearly you have no idea.

[John Cuthber]

13 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Google has photos showing where Trump appears taller than people who are supposed to be taller than him.

In the interest of balance, please post some.

[swansont]

16 hours ago, Ten oz said:

If the senior brass isn't willing to refuse unlawful orders than we are all f@*&^%. He could have just said Trump's health is good but that he won't discuss specific details which aren't relevant to the public. Trump's height isn't actually important. The Doctors willingness to lie over something  so trivial is very disheartening. I also don't believe he would have gone to court martial for saying no as that would only create a public record of him stating under oath Trump ordered him to lie. At worst he'd be forced to retire at the end of his current tour which is likely to happen anyway given the attrition rates of senior commissioned personnel. Either way the Doctor had a duty to not lie. 

This is a non-strategic decision from a doctor, not from a line officer who has command of a ship or fleet.

And I think Trump and his toadies are exactly that petty. Threat of court-martial, relieved of command, and immediate retirement. 

16 hours ago, rangerx said:

They claimed he was 6'3"" 239 lbs because at 6'2"", he would be considered obese.

And it's entirely possible that this is the whole issue. And somebody says to the doctor, "the president cannot be seen to be obese. He will have a fit, and we can't have him nuking North Korea, can we?"

[Ten oz]

11 minutes ago, swansont said:

And it's entirely possible that this is the whole issue. And somebody says to the doctor, "the president cannot be seen to be obese. He will have a fit, and we can't have him nuking North Korea, can we?"

If we believe, as I think must of us do, the Doctor fudged the height than doesn't that call the whole medical exam into question? I don't think we can trust any of it. 

[swansont]

Just now, Ten oz said:

If we believe, as I think must of us do, the Doctor fudged the height than doesn't that call the whole medical exam into question? I don't think we can trust any of it. 

You would not be wrong for questioning it, IMO. Obvious fudging indicates a lack of credibility.

[Airbrush]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Trump was not weighed in this exam.  The doctor took Trump's weight at his word.  Trump is obsessed with the fear of being considered obese, and would not hesitate to understate his weight when asked.

Also, the answers to the 30-question "brain exam" is available online (what year it is, what day of the week, who is president, etc.), according to Michael Wolff.

[DanTrentfield]

Okay look, I just don't even care anymore. Both sides have become so legitimately indoctrinated that at this point anyone who actually supports any side in politics is an indoctrinated blind fool who cannot even discern the true nature of a single politician. I hate the left, I hate the right, I hate any and all sides because they all line their pockets.

Frankly I wouldn't care if Trump was racist so long as he did not do three things: 

1. Did not enact laws giving rights to or taking rights away from any one particular race

2. Promoted America First (Because nationalism is a good thing UNTIL it becomes oppressive of other nations at which point it should stop, i.e. don't invade Poland like Germany did) 

3. Brought industry back to the states (Look people, too many people, not enough jobs)

 

Let him line his pockets if he chooses, I don't care, all presidents are horrible if you actually look at them for more two seconds, we just need to become assertive again, Russia and China and the EU are assertive, why can't we be? There is no justice after all, only positive action and negative action and fighting for oneself is always positive as long as you show mercy to your opponent. 

 

So if you were to call me a racist pig because I believe that all countries should assert their influence instead of babysitting the third world alone (Relief efforts are very good, but you can't provide relief if you don't have anything yourself) then I will be proud, because that is a complement because you're really the racist, you're really the person that believes that every race except whites should be able to have a nice life, that everybody has their turn to be rich and powerful, nobody has their turn, it's everyone's turn, the world is not fair, if it were we would all be drinking martinis and sitting in gold hot-tubs, but it is not, the fact of the matter is, the world is a place of equal opportunity, not equality, everyone regardless of race in this country gets the same basic opportunities, in some cases you get more or less but it all a game of chance. 

 

Remember that King Louis XVI of France was also accused of many of the same things as Trump, taking from the common man, giving more power to the nobles (The 1%), and remember how he attempted to better their situation, but the velvet underground (Voltaire etc.) denied this and indoctrinated the masses into revolution, why? For many of the same reasons people riot today, redistribution of wealth, UBI, the 72 genders and like movements etc (It was mostly homosexual stuff and not the modern version of it). The French revolution is about to repeat itself, and when it does everyone will pay dearly on all sides, the mob knows no mercy. And remember that the intellectuals who popularized deliciously derisive barbs about Louis XVI being "obese" and came up with the Carmagnole were among those executed in the September Massacre because they realized too late that the revolutionary liberal ideas that they made widespread were going to be taken to the extreme. 

 

Remember, history is like a pendulum, it goes from one extreme to the other until it finds balance, and history always repeats itself, so choose no extreme lest you merely prolong the balancing process. 

 

This is why I classify as independent in thought, not an independent, but independent in thought, because I consider all sides before choosing, instead of merely backing one side all the time.

[swansont]

7 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said:

Frankly I wouldn't care if Trump was racist so long as he did not do three things: 

If? I think that one is settled.

7 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said:

2. Promoted America First (Because nationalism is a good thing UNTIL it becomes oppressive of other nations at which point it should stop, i.e. don't invade Poland like Germany did) 

Such policies have an impact within the US. Trump's brand of nationalism is oppressive here, now. (i.e. Hitler did many objectionable, racist things before he invaded Poland. The outbreak of war is absolutely not the correct measuring stick regarding nationalism)

 

[Ten oz]

24 minutes ago, swansont said:

If? I think that one is settled.

Such policies have an impact within the US. Trump's brand of nationalism is oppressive here, now. (i.e. Hitler did many objectionable, racist things before he invaded Poland. The outbreak of war is absolutely not the correct measuring stick regarding nationalism)

 

Having leaders who are liars, racists, and etc have bigger and more long term impacts than the apologists care admit. For the middle age and above voter who supports Trump some of it is just a bit of fun and way to thumb their nose as long standing political rivals. For younger people, those in their formative years, it leads to distrust in officials, society overall, and angst. Since Trump even began his campaign bullying of minorities and immigrants rose all across the country. The pain and anger caused as kids fight on playgrounds our political rhetoric they don't even understand will have negative impacts for generations. It is easy for adults to dismiss Trump lying about his weight, crowd sizes, paying off porn stars, and etc but for kids who are being taught at school  (and home hopefully) that lying is bad the contradiction has different psychological implications.

I have read many stories about kids at school using Trump quotes to bully students. White students chanting at minorities "build the wall". Trump's actually words and what he means by them are literally incendiary enough that kids can use his quotes to bully each other with. When I really stop to think about it, to compare it to my childhood, it is nuts!! No kids ran around chanting "Gorbichaf tear down this wall" or "read my lips no new taxes" as a means of attacking other each other. Kids didn't know or care about political slogans. I had no idea who my teachers had voted for, my friends parents had voted for, and didn't care. Today that has changed. Trump's divisiveness has separated the whole country into us vs them. It is negatively impacting the way we treat other. As if that weren't bad enough there is the attacks on science and media. If I were 12yrs old today I have know idea what I would be thinking. I have no idea what it means for the long term but I am worried.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/336582-kids-quote-trump-to-bully-each-other-at-school-report

[DanTrentfield]

On 1/29/2018 at 1:00 PM, swansont said:

If? I think that one is settled.

Such policies have an impact within the US. Trump's brand of nationalism is oppressive here, now. (i.e. Hitler did many objectionable, racist things before he invaded Poland. The outbreak of war is absolutely not the correct measuring stick regarding nationalism)

 

Then what is? And why is everyone so against nationalism? You seem to forget that humanity, despite it's intelligence is a beast in disguise, if you lower your defense in good will someone who wants what you have will take it from you. That is why unless we assert we will be destroyed. We perpetuate the cycle yes, but unless you find a way to stop the natural competitiveness of humans and make them all saints then it will continue. The poor will always envy the rich, the rich will always ride on the backs of the poor. No institution in history has ever been able to curb this. Why? Because power corrupts universally. 

 

Also, the correct measuring stick of nationalism and the correct measuring stick of tyranny are often confused. 

 

And Trump's Nationalism is making people get jobs. No work, no food. Unless you physically cannot work this is how it should be. 

On 1/29/2018 at 2:13 PM, Ten oz said:

Having leaders who are liars, racists, and etc have bigger and more long term impacts than the apologists care admit. For the middle age and above voter who supports Trump some of it is just a bit of fun and way to thumb their nose as long standing political rivals. For younger people, those in their formative years, it leads to distrust in officials, society overall, and angst. Since Trump even began his campaign bullying of minorities and immigrants rose all across the country. The pain and anger caused as kids fight on playgrounds our political rhetoric they don't even understand will have negative impacts for generations. It is easy for adults to dismiss Trump lying about his weight, crowd sizes, paying off porn stars, and etc but for kids who are being taught at school  (and home hopefully) that lying is bad the contradiction has different psychological implications.

I have read many stories about kids at school using Trump quotes to bully students. White students chanting at minorities "build the wall". Trump's actually words and what he means by them are literally incendiary enough that kids can use his quotes to bully each other with. When I really stop to think about it, to compare it to my childhood, it is nuts!! No kids ran around chanting "Gorbichaf tear down this wall" or "read my lips no new taxes" as a means of attacking other each other. Kids didn't know or care about political slogans. I had no idea who my teachers had voted for, my friends parents had voted for, and didn't care. Today that has changed. Trump's divisiveness has separated the whole country into us vs them. It is negatively impacting the way we treat other. As if that weren't bad enough there is the attacks on science and media. If I were 12yrs old today I have know idea what I would be thinking. I have no idea what it means for the long term but I am worried.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/336582-kids-quote-trump-to-bully-each-other-at-school-report

Right, children are in the end children. I threw pinecones at people I didn't like and so will these children use their verbal pinecones to bully other children, why? They're kids. If Trump didn't exist they would still find a way. 

 

Gorbachev's day is very different from ours. I frankly like 99% of the Mexicans who come here, they're good hardworking people. But, when they come in illegally they hurt themselves more than us, why? If you're a landscaping company and you can get away with hiring an illegal immigrant and paying him $1.00 an hour who are you going to hire? Me or him? The issue isn't just the job competition alone, it's the wage issue. 

 

Also, the reason for the construction of the wall in Germany was to keep the German people from running to the west. So we are on the completely opposite perspective because we actually want them to cross over, Granted legally which is the reason for the wall. Frankly I also support streamlining the immigration process so that if you accept an ankle tracking device for the first 2 years just to ensure you actually don't do anything illegal, learn how to fluently read write and speak English, and can pass a basic citizenship test and have papers showing that you have no criminal record in any country and no history with the DEA or Border Patrol you can come in legally immediately and become a citizen with every right except that of voting until you are in the United states for 5 years. 

 

 

[swansont]

12 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said:

Then what is? And why is everyone so against nationalism?

Opposing Trump's brand of nationalism is being against his brand of nationalism. It would be incorrect and dishonest to extrapolate this.

Are you familiar with the bigoted origins of "America First"?

12 minutes ago, DanTrentfield said:

You seem to forget that humanity, despite it's intelligence is a beast in disguise, if you lower your defense in good will someone who wants what you have will take it from you. That is why unless we assert we will be destroyed. We perpetuate the cycle yes, but unless you find a way to stop the natural competitiveness of humans and make them all saints then it will continue. The poor will always envy the rich, the rich will always ride on the backs of the poor. No institution in history has ever been able to curb this. Why? Because power corrupts universally. 

We have some legislators who sponsor bills that try to even the playing field. Power does not corrupt the same magnitude.

[DanTrentfield]

16 minutes ago, swansont said:

Opposing Trump's brand of nationalism is being against his brand of nationalism. It would be incorrect and dishonest to extrapolate this.

Are you familiar with the bigoted origins of "America First"?

We have some legislators who sponsor bills that try to even the playing field. Power does not corrupt the same magnitude.

Hahahahaha. Wait for 5 years until you find those legislators became congressmen who did a single term and took their salary and ran, or brokered a shady deal to line their pockets. It's best to believe good doesn't exist because then you plan for everything to be corrupt, and if it isn't you celebrate. 

 

Look, I couldn't care less about it having origins in bigotry, I have no qualms about that unless it affects the way that it changes things. Why? Because everyone is a bigot and pretends they are not. I am a bigot because I am intolerant of indoctrination. Intolerance is looked upon as a bad thing, it can be, but it can also be a good thing, for example the intolerance of incompetence in technical fields like Chemical Engineering. Are they who prevent the idiot from designing our roads bigoted? Yes. Why? Because they don't want people to be killed by faulty engineering. So long as that bigotry affects the outcome positively I will tolerate it. Why? Because I've learned that the world is not equal and have given up the dream of that. It is a damned shame, I would love to see every single person who has no food be fed, but the greed of every single human and the limited supply deny them. It is not that I wish to see slaves and the starving exploited for profit, it is that it is inevitable. Much as we try to help them they will be exploited by someone. 

 

Point to an example of the oppression of Trump's Nationalism from a non news source, I will examine that source's beliefs and stance and if they oppose him then it is most likely propaganda. Why? Because they are on a side that perpetuates lies and thus unless I myself verify that they are not lying with the greatest scrutiny their words cannot be trusted by me.

Edited March 19, 2018 by DanTrentfield