Nasa Racism Claims

[Raider5678]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/01/22/nasa-pulled-this-astronaut-from-a-space-station-crew-her-brother-blames-racism/?utm_term=.e7ba7e573772

 

There are rumors going around that Nasa is racist because they pulled a black astronaut from the ISS  mission in June and replaced her with a Hispanic woman.

Thoughts?

[Silvestru]

I know absolutely nothing from the insides of this decision but I am sure that if a person was objectively not right for a job of such high level and was pulled out, the frustration and thoughts in your head would be to get it back no matter the costs. Racism is unacceptable but I am just saying that this could be a race card thing.

I know I would use any argument to reach some goals and dreams. If it was racism she wouldn't have gotten there in the first place.

It might not be an objective opinion as I am affected by white male bear privilege so I don't really know what this woman is going through. They might have something personal against her but I don't think race is a factor in this story.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Silvestru

[StringJunky]

The rumour's from her brother, isn't it? I doubt, it given a Hispanic woman is taking her place. Maybe they needed a different skill set for that mission. I would imagine when selecting a group they consider whether their choices embody all the necessary competencies.

Edited January 24, 2018 by StringJunky

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, Silvestru said:

I know I would use any argument to reach some goals and dreams. If it was racism she wouldn't have gotten there in the first place.

I don't know if race was a factor or not. I have no idea which individuals or groups made the decision or why. However the fact that she was there in the first place absolutely doesn't automatically mean race couldn't be a factor. Management isn't static. If there are different people in management today than when she was selected than her race could very well have played a role. 

[zapatos]

If NASA is racist it seems they just became that way given that the linked article states that "Fourteen African American astronauts have flown in space, and several have visited the space station."

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

The rumour's from her brother, isn't it? I doubt, it given a Hispanic woman is taking her place. Maybe they needed a different skill set for that mission. I would imagine when selecting a group they consider whether their choices embody all the necessary competencies.

I have no real opinion about the story because I have no idea at what level these types of decisions are made at NASA but I see no reason for doubt to be the default position.

[Silvestru]

12 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I don't know if race was a factor or not. I have no idea which individuals or groups made the decision or why. However the fact that she was there in the first place absolutely doesn't automatically mean race couldn't be a factor. Management isn't static. If there are different people in management today than when she was selected than her race could very well have played a role. 

Soooo how long ago do you think she was selected? A year, two? Could all of the management in NASA just change in that period. I know you are always on the side of the underdog Ten Oz but it's not always "The man" bringing her down.

It's more likely that her skillet was not suited or they found a better suited person. TBH the fact that she was replaced by a Hispanic woman sounds suspicious but I wont get tin foil hat on you guys to discuss that...

[Raider5678]

11 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I have no real opinion about the story because I have no idea at what level these types of decisions are made at NASA but I see no reason for doubt to be the default position.

 I see no reason for racism to be the default position either.

[Ten oz]

3 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Soooo how long ago do you think she was selected? A year, two? Could all of the management in NASA just change in that period. I know you are always on the side of the underdog Ten Oz but it's not always "The man" bringing her down.

I have no idea how long ago she was selected; do you? I have no idea how many people in management changed or how many people are involved in making such a decision; do you? Unless you have more knowledge than me it is fair to say neither of us have enough knowledge to say it was or wasn't racism. That is my point. 

[Raider5678]

3 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

It's more likely that her skillet was not suited or they found a better suited person. TBH the fact that she was replaced by a Hispanic woman sounds suspicious but I wont get tin foil hat on you guys to discuss that...

2

New Theory. Nasa was actually racist against Hispanic people before, and that's why she wasn't originally going to the ISS. Then the management changed and they decided it was better to be racist against black people so they changed her out with a Hispanic woman. There's an unground pool going around Nasa HQ as well as to when they should become racist on Hispanics again, but to appease the previous management they'll replace the Hispanic woman with an Asian woman instead of a  Black woman.

Then they'll decide they'll just be blatantly racist and change it to an old white male astronaut.

#GovernmentConspiracy

#We'reAllDoomed

#RacistNasaConspiracy

#GetYourTinFoilHats

[Ten oz]

4 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

 I see no reason for racism to be the default position either.

Why can't "I don't know" be the default position? 

[zapatos]

1 minute ago, Ten oz said:

I have no idea how long ago she was selected; do you? I have no idea how many people in management changed or how many people are involved in making such a decision; do you? Unless you have more knowledge than me it is fair to say neither of us have enough knowledge to say it was or wasn't racism. That is my point. 

We also don't have enough knowledge to say it was or wasn't due to her choice in automobiles, but we aren't speculating on that.

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, Ten oz said:

I have no idea how long ago she was selected; do you? I have no idea how many people in management changed or how many people are involved in making such a decision; do you? Unless you have more knowledge than me it is fair to say neither of us have enough knowledge to say it was or wasn't racism. That is my point. 

The fact she was exchanged for a Hispanic woman casts doubt though.

Racists, from the few I've met, typically believe THEIR race is superior. So changing her out with a caucasian would have been the preferred move.

Well, I guess it's also possible it's a Hispanic Racist in the HQ but then we're just getting into conspiracy theory territory. 

[Silvestru]

1 minute ago, Ten oz said:

I have no idea how long ago she was selected; do you? I have no idea how many people in management changed or how many people are involved in making such a decision; do you? Unless you have more knowledge than me it is fair to say neither of us have enough knowledge to say it was or wasn't racism. That is my point. 

Hehe is it so unfair to imagine? and even with so little data to try to see some options? Media seemed to call it racism with no hesitation. We are above such hasty assumptions but we can still talk about it. I just gave those options to dispute what the paper was saying. If the title was: It's not racist! I would bring up arguments why it could be racist.

[Raider5678]

2 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Why can't "I don't know" be the default position? 

It can be.

But then why does anyone bother speculating?

The default position by the media was that it was racism. That's pretty obvious.

If they didn't want to point to racism, they wouldn't have said anything. Nobody would have cared if they said: "Astronaut replaced."

They brought race into the factor on purpose to get views.

Providing points to why that could be wrong isn't necessarily wrong.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Raider5678

[Ten oz]

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

We also don't have enough knowledge to say it was or wasn't due to her choice in automobiles, but we aren't speculating on that.

Absolutely, this is all just purely a speculative discussion. I have no idea what happened, who made the call, or why. I am not pretending to either. 

[zapatos]

30 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I have no real opinion about the story because I have no idea at what level these types of decisions are made at NASA but I see no reason for doubt to be the default position.

Congratulations on 3000 posts!

Just for clarification, when you said "no reason for doubt to be the default position", were you saying 'no reason to doubt NASA's integrity as the default position', 'no reason to doubt it was racism", or what?

[Silvestru]

8 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Absolutely, this is all just purely a speculative discussion. I have no idea what happened, who made the call, or why. I am not pretending to either. 

Here is some more information Ten oz. Like I said, It was around a year between the two decisions.

Quote

On January 4, 2017, NASA announced that Epps would be assigned as a flight engineer to the International Space Station in mid-2018 for Expeditions 56 and 57, becoming the first African American space station crew member^[12] and the 15th African American to fly in space,^[13] but on January 16, 2018, NASA announced that Epps had been replaced by her backup Serena M. Auñón-Chancellor, but that Epps would "be considered for assignment to future missions".

Also she never blamed NASA or racism, her brother did. Love for your family is a strong thing. If my sister was ever in a conflict I would try to protect her first and then ask questions.

 

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, Silvestru said:

Here is some more information Ten oz. Like I said, It was around a year between the two decisions.

Also she never blamed NASA or racism, her brother did. Love for your family is a strong thing. If my sister was ever in a conflict I would try to protect her first and then ask questions.

 

Also, unless I'm wrong her replacement was a medical specialist was she not?

I think I read that somewhere.

[Ten oz]

10 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

The fact she was exchanged for a Hispanic woman casts doubt though.

Racists, from the few I've met, typically believe THEIR race is superior. So changing her out with a caucasian would have been the preferred move.

Well, I guess it's also possible it's a Hispanic Racist in the HQ but then we're just getting into conspiracy theory territory. 

It is strange to me you counter your own argument by pointing out the person or people who made the call could be Hispanic (in lieu of neither of us actually knowing) but ironically feel that is somehow anymore conspiratorial than not. 

Also a person can be racist against individual groups without being so against all Japanese people can hate Chinese people, Italian people hate Russians, Mexican can hate Puerto Ricans, and etc.  Assuming that because the person who replaces a black person is Hispanic means races played no role isn't a given; especially considering we have no idea who any of the people who made the choice are. 

[Silvestru]

3 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Also, unless I'm wrong her replacement was a medical specialist was she not?

I think I read that somewhere.

Quote

 

Auñón-Chancellor was hired by NASA as a flight surgeon and spent over nine months in Russia supporting medical operations for International Space Station astronauts. She served as the deputy crew surgeon for STS-127 and Expedition 22. She also serves as the deputy lead for Orion – Medical Operations.^[4]

She received the 2009 Julian E. Ward Memorial Award from the Aerospace Medical Association for her contributions to spaceflightcrewmember clinical care.^[4]

 

^{Correct. Quite a decorated one as well.}

[Ten oz]

5 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Congratulations on 3000 posts!

Just for clarification, when you said "no reason for doubt to be the default position", were you saying 'no reason to doubt NASA's integrity as the default position', 'no reason to doubt it was racism", or what?

I am not questioning NASA's integrity. I am not claiming to know what happened. Have repeatedly posted I don't know who made the call or why. My position is that I don't know what happened. I am simply arguing that thus far no one else in discussion knows either. 

[Raider5678]

Just now, Ten oz said:

I am not questioning NASA's integrity. I am not claiming to know what happened. Have repeatedly posted I don't know who made the call or why. My position is that I don't know what happened. I am simply arguing that thus far no one else in discussion knows either. 

Technically in science we don't ever 100% KNOW.

However, we can make observations and come to reasonable conclusions.

 

Epps was a flight engineer. Her replacement is a Medical Specialist.

These are two different roles, and it points more to a difference in WHO they needed for the ISS then what race they wanted in the ISS.

With this, while neither of us know for 100% certain, we can make reasonable assumptions.

[zapatos]

6 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I am not questioning NASA's integrity. I am not claiming to know what happened. Have repeatedly posted I don't know who made the call or why. My position is that I don't know what happened. I am simply arguing that thus far no one else in discussion knows either. 

You didn't answer my question.

[Ten oz]

11 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Also she never blamed NASA or racism, her brother did. Love for your family is a strong thing. If my sister was ever in a conflict I would try to protect her first and then ask questions

Which proves what? Additionally what am I claiming that you are attempting to counter? Raider's OP asked for thoughts on the story. My thoughts are that I have no idea what happened and thus far no one in this discussion does either. What is "I don't know" a problematic answer in a situation like this where all the players are not known. If this issue becomes big in the news it would make sense for NASA to explain what happened. At that point we will all have much more info to create opinions with.