New Tax Bill Benefits

[swansont]

12 minutes ago, Huckleberry of Yore said:

Since it is opinion it is to be rejected out of hand?

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Moderator Note

You were asked for facts, so yes.

 

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Per the moderator's request, I added information backing my position.  But the same moderator has chided me for not staying on topic, so feel free to start another topic.

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Moderator Note

You were asked for facts

 

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On topic: according to CNBC this morning, 74% of companies reporting profits recently are beating estimates.  That is regarded as positive economic news.  As I write, I see Apple reported earnings, and the stock is up 4% in after hours.  

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Moderator Note

Really? After Apple warned and the stock dropped, this is a positive?

We expect arguments in good faith. This ain’t it

 

 

1 hour ago, Huckleberry of Yore said:

My pleasure, glad to oblige. 

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Moderator Note

And yet you didn’t. The topic is federal tax, and you gave (dubious) state info.

 

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I was just afraid you might chide me for going off topic again.

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Moderator Note

There’s that, too.

 

[Ten oz]

On 1/23/2019 at 7:30 AM, Ten oz said:

@Raider5678

After starting down in the first quarter GDP was up around 2014 levels in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Here are the final numbers for the first 3 quarters from Dept. of Commerce . Estimates for the 4th quarter are low, Link. Trump promised 6% GDP  when Congress was writing up his for his plan. GDP for the year was only 3%. 

So a year later and deficits are up, the stock market is down, and GDP is flat. Do you feel the tax cut was worthwhile? 

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry of Yore said:

Perhaps I am the only one that the "facts only" rule applies?  So noted.

Agreed.

You are qouting me in the absence of the rest of what I said regarding GDP.

[Ten oz]

Tax returns are lower on average this year which is catching a lot of people by surprise. The tax cut meant less money was taken throughout the year which means there is less money to be returned. Unfortunately it seems the increases in net pay were small enough or undercut by other types of increases like healthcare to go unnoticed by many. The annual return drop is large enough to be noticed. Millions of people rely on their tax returns each year to pay off credit cards, fund education, and etc. It will be interesting to see what impact smaller returns have on first and second quarter GDP. Link

 

[swansont]

It’s not just that the withholding dropped, apparently it dropped more than the taxes did, so some of any increase in paychecks were illusory. If they dropped equally, refunds would not have changed. 

[Ten oz]

7 minutes ago, swansont said:

It’s not just that the withholding dropped, apparently it dropped more than the taxes did, so some of any increase in paychecks were illusory. If they dropped equally, refunds would not have changed. 

True, the changes impact different people differently. Do you think the reduction in returns will negatively impact spending during the first and second quarter? 

 

[dimreepr]

On 1/30/2018 at 2:21 PM, Raider5678 said:

This tax bill was said to be the apocalypse by some.

I'm not sure how much longer we can survive this apocalypse.....

 

The fundamentals of tax are, Its a universal basic income  pension i.e. the more you pay the more you benefit...

It’s true no matter where you are on the ladder

[swansont]

7 hours ago, Ten oz said:

True, the changes impact different people differently. Do you think the reduction in returns will negatively impact spending during the first and second quarter? 

It’s been a while since income dictated spending. I think it will be used as an excuse to try and cut programs the GOP doesn’t like.

[Ten oz]

1 minute ago, swansont said:

It’s been a while since income dictated spending. I think it will be used as an excuse to try and cut programs the GOP doesn’t like.

I think refunds are a bit different that regular income though. I think a lot of people plan on having a return and use it to pay big ticket items all at once like credit cards, vacations, or etc. It isn't smart but lots of people do it. I suspect there will be less new home appliances, cars, and etc bought to kick the year off than average. I do agree that the GOP will spin it as a justification to cut programs they don't like. 

[swansont]

12 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I think refunds are a bit different that regular income though. I think a lot of people plan on having a return and use it to pay big ticket items all at once like credit cards, vacations, or etc. It isn't smart but lots of people do it. I suspect there will be less new home appliances, cars, and etc bought to kick the year off than average. I do agree that the GOP will spin it as a justification to cut programs they don't like. 

I thought you meant government spending. Sorry.

Yes, I think it will decrease consumer spending.

[Airbrush]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 6:49 AM, waitforufo said:

If you would just drop your envy of the "rich" your life would be a lot happier.  Try practicing saying "well good for them" any time you hear that good fortune befalls anyone. . . . . 

This is the myth of privilege.  The rich are always people who worked hard and are talented, so they deserve their riches, and we should be respectful to them for their hard work and talent.  However, it may be that not all rich are hard workers with talent.  Also, for every rich person in the top tenth of a percent, there could be a hundred others who are just as hard working and just as talented, but they were not in the right place at the right time, so they are restricted to a middle class life.  There is room for only a small number at the top (by definition).

Edited February 26, 2019 by Airbrush

[Ten oz]

Trillion dollar deficits moving forward and no projections to balance the budget until 2034. 

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The budget would not balance for 15 years, breaking Mr. Trump’s 2016 campaign promise to pay off the entire national debt within eight years. Mr. Trump’s first budget proposed to achieve balance in 10 years. The budget released on Monday forecasts trillion-dollar deficits for four straight years, starting in 2019. Those are largely the result of Mr. Trump’s tax cut, which has been financed through increased government borrowing. Link

 

[Ten oz]

The tax cuts are clearly negatively impacting the annual deficits. As executed the tax cuts have failed to achieve they stated objective. Increases in GDP spurred by business growth from the tax cuts were suppose to pay for the tax cuts and increase jobs. 

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The U.S. posted its biggest monthly budget deficit on record last month, amid a 20 percent drop in corporate tax revenue and a boost in spending so far this fiscal year.

The budget gap widened to $234 billion in February, compared with a fiscal gap of $215.2 billion a year earlier. That gap surpassed the previous monthly record of $231.7 billion set seven years ago, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

February’s shortfall helped push the deficit for the first five months of the government’s fiscal year to $544.2 billion, up almost 40 percent from the same period the previous year, the Treasury Department said in its monthly budget report Friday. The release was delayed a week by the government shutdown earlier this year.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-22/u-s-posts-largest-monthly-budget-deficit-on-record-in-february

 

 

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

The tax cuts are clearly negatively impacting the annual deficits. As executed the tax cuts have failed to achieve they stated objective. Increases in GDP spurred by business growth from the tax cuts were suppose to pay for the tax cuts and increase jobs. 

I understand some GOP lawmakers have already been calling for more tax cuts to get signed into law. They’re asking to treat coming down off a surging sugar high by simply swallowing more sugar.