Explosions on London Underground

[donkey]

Of course it's terrible but it wasn't really a case of if but when we'd get attacked so I think most people were pretty mentally prepared for this and the emergency services were well prepared in a logistical sense too. The fact that London was hit wasn't surprising but it's still shocking when it happens. Thankfully the number of deaths is still relatively low.

 

Oh well, the pub was still packed tonight so I don't think a whole load of people will be shocked into changing their routines (not that i'm in London mind you).

[flyboy]

My main concern is that we dont have any 'lets go beat up some muslims' shit as a result (btw' date=' the british muslim organisation has already heavily condemed the muslims who did this)

 

Other than that, daves right. the UK has an attitude that deals well with this kind of thing.

 

callouse as this may seem, this'll get 'shrugged off' pretty soon: the IRA have bombed us before, and we always mourne, but get strait back on with things: the tube and busses will be up and running pretty soon, planning will go on for the olympics pretty soon, the G8 summit will continue (apparently the prime-minister is headed back tonight to continue it)...

 

the terrorists will have accomplished very little exept to incur some retaliation (which i hope is moderated with common sence).

 

 

and: cheers, pangaloss.[/quote']

 

dude what if the olympics is next?

they hav the resources to build a dirty nuke and thats what they might do

they better gaurd the entire city pretty thoroly

[YT2095]

I`de like to know where they get their explosives from without being traced?

it`s hardly the sort of thing you can have imported from Afganistan without raising a few eyebrows, and if it`s stolen from the country it`s used in, how come it`s not reported or traced or even looked after better in the 1`st place?

I find it Very hard to beleive that this stuff is "Home Made", even the precursors are hard to obtain without a check.

 

cut off the supply and you stop them dead in their tracks!

[Dak]

dude what if the olympics is next?

they hav the resources to build a dirty nuke and thats what they might do

they better gaurd the entire city pretty thoroly

 

Like i said' date=' and without meaning any disrespect to the victims, thisll get shrugged off pretty quickly. We have years of experience of not letting terrorists bully us. Busses, surface trains and part of the underground are already back up and running ¹. The G8 summit is continuing². things in general are continuing.

 

with reguards to the olympics, there will a £224m security plan³, in possibly the most frequently terrorist-bombed developed city in the world. Im sure things will be fine. and if not: meh. you cant worry about it, cos thats what the terrorists want. we have police, military intelligence and security planners who are payed to worry, so i dont see why us civvies should.

 

I find it Very hard to beleive that this stuff is "Home Made", even the precursors are hard to obtain without a check.

 

could you make a bomb that big at home? I reacon I could make one of a similar yield as was used on the bus (tho not small enough to be carried in a bag, addmitedly).

 

I reacon itd be possible with the know-how. do they know what the explosive was yet?

[Dave]

I'd guess some sort of plastic explosive. Small, and doesn't require a lot of work to put together. Also, pretty easily obtainable for these guys - remember, it's not just the US and UK making explosives. There's plenty of sources available that we have no control over.

[Dak]

And dont forget that most of the UK isnt city, its countryside. you could set up an explosives lab in the country piece of piddle. my mate, who comes from dorset, used to make pipe-bombs when he was a kid.

 

he and some of his mates took a dislike to a local farmer (i think he used to leave carcases on his land to attract foxes so that they could be hunted, or something, which is both cruel and illegal).

 

Anyway, they put a pipe-bomb in his tractor's enjine one night and writ the entire thing off.

 

addmitedly it wasnt plastiq, but it was still a bomb, and it was made by kids. a remote farm could quite easaly, id assume, churn out high explosives if the people operating the project were chemists.

 

Anyway, you can get a huge explosion without resorting to high-explosives. stopping them obtaining/making explosives would be practically impossible, i should think.

[the tree]

You could set up an explosives lab in the country piece of piddle...stopping them obtaining/making explosives would be practically impossible, i should think.

Agreed, most farms have the right materials to make bombs and it wouldn't be feasable to ban stuff like petrol and fertilisers.

I suspect that this was home grown, it'd be to much hassle to get the equiptment past customs.

cut off the supply and you stop them dead in their tracks!

Perhaps looking at the causes would also make sense, this isn't just random destruction, they do have thier reasons. I am not saying that they're justified, just that they see themselves as doing something right.

We have years of experience of not letting terrorists bully us.

Tottally, the news has kept saying that this is the worse since the blitz, but each individual bomb has been beaten by the IRA and they have let off a lot more than seven bombs in thier time.

[coquina]

I`de like to know where they get their explosives from without being traced?

it`s hardly the sort of thing you can have imported from Afganistan without raising a few eyebrows' date=' and if it`s stolen from the country it`s used in, how come it`s not reported or traced or even looked after better in the 1`st place?

I find it Very hard to beleive that this stuff is "Home Made", even the precursors are hard to obtain without a check.

 

cut off the supply and you stop them dead in their tracks![/quote']

 

Probably North Korea.

[YT2095]

I guess if Cigarettes and booze are smuggled in past customs, then a few kg of C-4 isn`t going to be difficult when they use a ferry.

 

The Tree: If these were reasonable men, then you`de have a point, find the cause an elliminate it, but they`re not, they`ve proven that by their actions repeatedly.

 

confirmed, over 50 dead now (

[atinymonkey]

I've just got back from London. I arrived at Kings Cross at 8.50am on Thursday, and was moved out of the tube in advance of the second explosion by the very efficient transport police. Spent the day in Euston, watching the city being locked down, then got driven out to Highgate where I proceeded to get very, very drunk.

 

The media circus at Kings Cross interviewed me on the way home, looking for information. Which was odd. I'd become an eyewitness/bystander (in the obligatory crumpled suit).

 

My two hero's out of it are: -

 

1) The Metropolitan/Transport Police, who were bloody awesome and saved literally hundreds of lives.

 

2) Dan. Who, faced with bombing throughout the entire central city and massive pedestrian migrations, made his way to the Savoy and sat down to a late breakfast of tea and toast. Now that's class.

 

So tired right now. Eat and sleep are the only two things on my mind. Catch you later.

[Dave]

Hey, atm. Sounds like quite a story Glad you got out okay.

[Phi for All]

So tired right now. Eat and sleep are the only two things on my mind. Catch you later.

Rest up, we'll want details later, atm-style. So glad to hear you're safe.

[alt_f13]

That's what I was thinking about today. It's hard to remain cool, but as otherse have said, the UK is particularly resiliant in the face of these types of things. I just hope that things don't escalate to where the rest of the world is as genuinly pissed off as the united states is. Because then there will be trouble, and lots more innocent people will lose their lives.

 

 

You make it sound as if the US collectively goes out with a torch in one hand and pitch fork in the other after Muslims. There have been far more innocent muslims killed by the insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq than by the USA, civilian crimes and military action combined.

 

Frankly, if the rest of the planet wakes the hell up and acknowleges what is going on, things will end much more quickly, and with fewer lives lost.

 

What I am really sick of is hearing sympathy for these terrorists from Muslims where I live. It's not uncommon either, especially from the older folk. I can only stare on in astonishment when I hear something about how they "faced American oppression for so long," or how "they stand up for muslims."

 

People like that should get back on the plane, and hope it doesn't get blown out of the sky by their heros on the way back from the free world. That reminds me of that fat preacher with the claw hand, condemning infidels in England. If it's so bad, how come he or his followers are there?

 

I just don't understand how these people can put so much effort into hurting other people and put none into actually fixing the problems.

[Hellbender]

I just heard about this, and I hope all is well with the English members and their families here.

[blike]

You make it sound as if the US collectively goes out with a torch in one hand and pitch fork in the other after Muslims.

I'm really just referring to the general pissed-off-at-all-muslims attitude that I see all too often amongst a certain class of people in the U.S. A bumper sticker I saw sums the attitude up: "Kill 'em all , let Allah sort them out."

[alt_f13]

It was a pickup right? Did it have a gun rack and confederate flag posted up in the back window?

[Glider]

I don't think it will have the effect desired by the terrorists. I work in Regent Street and go through King's Cross every day, twice a day. It won't stop me. From what I've heard from others, it won't stop them either.

 

The thing about bombs is that they're indiscriminate and impersonal. So, you can't fear them. It's like fearing lightning, or meteor strike.

 

Some years ago, I watched two go off (IRA, not Al Queda). One was in a rubbish bin in cavendish square (where I often have lunch as it's behind the Uni). That one went off and a few minutes later, another went off in John Lewis, which backs on to Cavendish Square. I saw both. The panic lasted only minutes. Within half an hour, the place was cordoned off completely. Within an hour, everything was more or less back to normal with people going about their business.

 

I do feel for the families of the people who lost their lives and for those who were maimed, but the terrorists have failed. Their function is to induce terror; to disrupt the normal functioning of people and the way of life of a city. In this, they have failed, and they will continue to fail. In London, we've been living with the threat of bombs for too long, what with the IRA and all. Al Queda have made the same mistake. The people of london are a bit like wet cornflour. They may seem a bit stodgy and complacent, but the more you push them, the more they harden against you. The terrorists are winning no symapathy, they are not changing the way people behave and more importantly, they are not inducing fear and terror, they are hardening people against them. That's all.

 

As for retribution against muslims, I doubt that will be a serious problem here either. London is so multicultural. The muslim community has already come out against the attacks and are as affected by them as anybody else. Do London muslims not use the underground system or buses? They run the same risks from terrorism as any other Londoner. There may be a few incidents from the more paranoid and ignorant, but I really don't think it will be an issue.

 

As an aside, I will be using King's Cross and the underground from there again tonight. I fancy a wee drinkie in Camden Town, and no threat of bombs will stop me doing that.

[Martin]

there`s a Strong hatred of them around here anyway' date=' some of their "political manouvers" have endangered our heritage, they`re not looked upon kindly anymore...

[/quote']

 

I assume there is still no hard information about who did it. I saw this Thursday:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/070705X.shtml

---quote from truthout---

Spiegel Online posted a statement it attributed to an Arabic Web site. The statement, in Arabic, said that it was from a group called the Secret Al Qaeda Jihad Organization in Europe and that the group had carried out the attack in retaliation of Britain's involvement in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

"In response to the massacre that Britain has carried out in Iraq and Afghanistan: The heroic mujahedeen has undertaken a blessed attack in London," the statement said. "Now Britain is burning with fear, dread and dismay from north, south, east and west."

 

It continued: "We have warned the British government and the British people again and again. We have carried out our promise and undertaken a blessed military attack in Britain after great efforts by the heroic mujahedeen over a long period of time to ensure the success of the attack."

 

The statement also warned "Denmark, Italy and all of the Crusader governments" that they will be attacked if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The veracity of the claim could not be verified and various groups often claim responsibility after terror attacks. An Al Qaeda group based in Europe also claimed responsibility for the train bombings on March 11, 2004, in Madrid, which killed 191 and injured 1,900.

---end quote---

 

Have any other groups claimed responsibility?

[Martin]

in parceling out responsibility

whatever one's emotional response to London rushhour terror-bombing

some share of blame should probably go to the

bush administration

because invading Irq was a totally unwise move

as I think we all understand and

the way it has been carried out by our brave servicemen and -women (bombing ordinary people, shooting up shrines, peeing on the koran, no matter how morally justified these actions

were believed to have been) laid down

implacable hatred in the hearts of many muslims

 

too bad bush drew blair in on the adventure

[Pangloss]

in parceling out responsibility

whatever one's emotional response to London rushhour terror-bombing

some share of blame should probably go to the

bush administration

 

 

In my view' date=' terrorism is caused by [i']terrorists[/i]. Leave them alone, and they blow you up. Give 'em what they want, and they blow you up more. There's no other blame to pass around. Not one bit.

 

I understand the frustration of being on the losing side of a socio-political debate, and being upset about it. But I think it's unfair to place blame where it doesn't belong. I didn't vote for Bush (this time) either, but you don't see me blaming him for Hurricane Dennis just because he didn't sign Kyoto, which makes exactly as much sense.

 

Terrorism is just wrong. There is no other side of the equation. No second half of the sentence. No "if we only had..." to contemplate. The only people at fault are the terrorists.

[Dak]

there are as many valid arguments that the war in iraq etc was a bad idea as there are valid arguments that it was a good idea, but whichever; britain chose to go to war.

 

we weren't forced by bush, so i dont see how he could be to blame even if the war was inadvisable and the cause of the recent bombings.

[Martin]

we weren't forced by bush' date=' so i dont see how he could be to blame even if the war was inadvisable and the cause of the recent bombings.[/quote']

 

I appreciate what seems to me a very generous view of it.

 

Pangloss you also make good points. As for my thoughts on this sad subject, 'nuf said.