U.S. Military parade

[Ten oz]

"President Trump’s vision of soldiers marching and tanks rolling down the boulevards of Washington is moving closer to reality in the Pentagon and White House, where officials say they have begun to plan a grand military parade later this year showcasing the might of America’s armed forces.

Trump has long mused publicly and privately about wanting such a parade, but a Jan. 18 meeting between Trump and top generals in the Pentagon’s tank — a room reserved for top-secret discussions — marked a tipping point, according to two officials briefed on the planning.

Surrounded by the military’s highest-ranking officials, including Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., Trump’s seemingly abstract desire for a parade was suddenly heard as a presidential directive, the officials said"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-marching-orders-to-the-pentagon-plan-a-grand-military-parade/2018/02/06/9e19ca88-0b55-11e8-8b0d-891602206fb7_story.html?utm_term=.f6568b7d2fa3

 

Is a military parade down the street of Washington DC appropriate? I personally find the idea very distasteful. Such optics are ones I primarily have only seen in authoritarian regimes. The U.S. Military serves the people of the United States and are not toys belonging to the President. I do not understand what there is to gain from a large scale parade down the streets of the capital.Additionally it is an egregious waste of money. Presidential inaugurations cost an estimated 200-300 million dollars and do not include the assets which would be on display in a parade of might. At a time when Congress wrestles over the budget and every dollar is being torn in half I believe it is an insult to the nation that Trump would even entertain this.  

[dimreepr]

Sounds a bit like he wants to wave his dick at Kim Jong-un (told you mine is bigger).

On a more serious note, I tend to agree it smacks of an authoritarian regime and is a little worrying given the path he's on.

Edited February 7, 2018 by dimreepr

[rangerx]

32 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Sounds a bit like he wants to wave his dick at Kim Jong-un (told you mine is bigger).

On a more serious note, I tend to agree it smacks of an authoritarian regime and is a little worrying given the path he's on.

It's true. Authoritarian demagoguery and little else.

[DrP]

Well other countries do it regularly....  like Russia, North Korea and China for example...  so what's all the fuss about?        

[rangerx]

14 minutes ago, DrP said:

Well other countries do it regularly....  like Russia, North Korea and China for example...  so what's all the fuss about?        

And France apparently, which seems to be what brought on this spectacle of dickwavery.

[dimreepr]

14 minutes ago, DrP said:

Well other countries do it regularly....

Yep, dick waving is a global pastime, who knew the women would join in... 

[Ten oz]

I find many of the military exercises we do around the world to be a waste of resources in many cases but I at least understand the justification; improve readiness. A parade through the Capital isn't something I understand the justification for. It will cost hundreds of millions perhaps a billion dollars to do and improves nothing (readiness, diplomacy, tensions, etc). I can imagine no reason for this other than to appease Trump himself and that is a bit scary. ask not what your President can do for the country but what the country can do for it's president. 

[Alex_Krycek]

Anything that Trump can do to satiate his ravenous ego, he will do.  Attention from others is pretty much all he cares about.

[Ten oz]

It is also worth adding that spending is what sunk the U.S.S.R. during the arms race/Cold War. The U.S. currently has a trillion dollar annual deficit and spends 700 billion on Defense. Military Parades is a bad signal of hyperbolic military spending and prioritizing vs elsewhere in the economy.

[Alex_Krycek]

 

7 hours ago, Ten oz said:

It is also worth adding that spending is what sunk the U.S.S.R. during the arms race/Cold War. The U.S. currently has a trillion dollar annual deficit and spends 700 billion on Defense. Military Parades is a bad signal of hyperbolic military spending and prioritizing vs elsewhere in the economy.

I agree.  But how to break out of the cycle?  The defense industry has enormous influence in Washington; they're an integral part of the US economy.  Military dominance also allows the US to influence the global economy in favor of US financial interests in ways that a non-hegemonic power wouldn't be able to.  But the more we keep doing what we're doing...

Also, I don't know if any one president has the power to change things.  Too much money, too many jobs, too little oversight. 

 

Military Economy:

https://siteselection.com/issues/2012/sep/sas-military-economy.cfm

Defense Lobbying:

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=D 

 

A military parade in Qatar:

Edited February 7, 2018 by Alex_Krycek

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

I find many of the military exercises we do around the world to be a waste of resources in many cases but I at least understand the justification; improve readiness. A parade through the Capital isn't something I understand the justification for. It will cost hundreds of millions perhaps a billion dollars to do and improves nothing (readiness, diplomacy, tensions, etc). I can imagine no reason for this other than to appease Trump himself and that is a bit scary. ask not what your President can do for the country but what the country can do for it's president. 

It's nothing more than a metaphor, all be it an expensive one; to imagine a power that can't be defeated is to imagine a wish that can't be corrupted.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, rangerx said:

And France apparently, which seems to be what brought on this spectacle of dickwavery.

France was celebrating a holiday (Bastille Day, so it was celebrating the French Revolution) and not sucking up to its leader. The US has Independence Day parades, as do a lot of countries.

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, DrP said:

Well other countries do it regularly....  like Russia, North Korea and China for example...  so what's all the fuss about?        

We outspend the next 7 countries on military functions. For it to be to scale, we'd have to have a parade as big as China's, Russia's, Saudi Arabia's, France's, the UK's, India's, and Germany's parades combined. And then there's the bigger question: with all that, doesn't it make us look a bit silly flaunting it? I think military parades have been rare in the US because it would seem like such obvious and unnecessary posturing. It's the move of a country (or someone) who is very afraid others don't take them seriously enough.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

We outspend the next 7 countries on military functions. For it to be to scale, we'd have to have a parade as big as China's, Russia's, Saudi Arabia's, France's, the UK's, India's, and Germany's parades combined. And then there's the bigger question: with all that, doesn't it make us look a bit silly flaunting it? I think military parades have been rare in the US because it would seem like such obvious and unnecessary posturing. It's the move of a country (or someone) who is very afraid others don't take them seriously enough.

I think it depends on how it's done, presented and perceived. I don't think it's wrong, in principle, to honour people who are prepared to die for what they believe to be right and their country. It could be a parade of service people and not loads of military hardware, just  symbolic pieces representing a service. Don't forget, the military do plenty of non-military things, like aiding disaster efforts and rescues.

Edited February 7, 2018 by StringJunky

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

It could be a parade of service people and not loads of military hardware, just  symbolic pieces representing a service.

This is what we've done in commemoration in the past, but... Trump.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I think it depends on how it's done, presented and perceived. I don't think it's wrong, in principle, to honour people who are prepared to die for what they believe to be right and their country. It could be a parade of service people and not loads of military hardware, just  symbolic pieces representing a service.

How can you wave your dick, without the perception that, you think, it's big?

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, Phi for All said:

This is what we've done in commemoration in the past, but... Trump.

You could let him initiate it and with future presidents it can be adjusted to send out the right message internally and externally. There'll be a learning curve anyway on hitting the right note, whoever starts it. Look at the French example, nobody kicks off and says they are posturing,in an aggressive way,  do they? I'm not aware of any.

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

How can you wave your dick, without the perception that, you think, it's big?

If it's done to honor the military and its sacrifices, there's no dick about it. You can have a military parade that represents the spirit of patriotism without a fascist intent. The dick comes out when you have to bring out the hardware, chew up your asphalt with tank treads, and make it all about threat.

[StringJunky]

4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

How can you wave your dick, without the perception that, you think, it's big?

So, a bunch of people just marching is dick waving? The dick waving is putting all your best hardware on display and parading it through the streets ala  Russia and N.Korea.

2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

If it's done to honor the military and its sacrifices, there's no dick about it. You can have a military parade that represents the spirit of patriotism without a fascist intent. The dick comes out when you have to bring out the hardware, chew up your asphalt with tank treads, and make it all about threat.

Beat me to it... absolutely.

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

Look at the French example, nobody kicks off and says they are posturing,in an aggressive way,  do they? I'm not aware of any.

Because it was on a national holiday, where it was part of the celebration. Trump seems to want this parade to stand on its own. At least I haven't heard that it's to take place on Memorial Day, or Independence Day. 

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, Phi for All said:

Because it was on a national holiday, where it was part of the celebration. Trump seems to want this parade to stand on its own. At least I haven't heard that it's to take place on Memorial Day, or Independence Day. 

Memorial Day would be ok because it's about sacrifice but Independence Day would be a celebration of victory and war over someone else. I was thinking more along the line of an  Armed Services Day to allow the country to say 'thank you'.

[dimreepr]

Don't get me wrong, I think we can represent our military/past/history with a parade, but in recent years (at least here (UK)) that parade is sacristan (don't you dare question) and seems little different.

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

Memorial Day would be ok because it's about sacrifice but Independence Day would be a celebration of victory and war over someone else. I was thinking more along the line of an  Armed Services Day to allow the country to say 'thank you'.

I suppose the test of his intent will be whether or not it's done on a holiday, or if he insists on showcasing American military might on its own.

[StringJunky]

4 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I suppose the test of his intent will be whether or not it's done on a holiday, or if he insists on showcasing American military might on its own.

I'm sure the coming days will reveal his intentions. My point though is, in principle, it need not be a bad idea.

[Ten oz]

28 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

. I don't think it's wrong, in principle, to honour people who are prepared to die for what they believe to be right and their country

This isn't to honour military members.