U.S. Military parade

[StringJunky]

Just now, Ten oz said:

This isn't to honour military members. 

That's a definitive statement when it hasn't happened yet.

[Ten oz]

29 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

If it's done to honor the military and its sacrifices, there's no dick about it. You can have a military parade that represents the spirit of patriotism without a fascist intent. The dick comes out when you have to bring out the hardware, chew up your asphalt with tank treads, and make it all about threat.

We have veterans day and independence day. The government can ramp those days up around the country to honor military members. Presidents have a long history of go to bases on Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, and etc to honor troops. That is how presidents traditionally show gratitude. They go to them and not direct them to come to him and march before White House. 

 

9 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

That's a definitive statement when it hasn't happened yet.

A parade is work and not a casual tour of the White House where the president shakes hand. Members will need to plan and prepare for this, travel, set aside other priorities, and etc for this. Forced morale isn't truly morale. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ten oz
Typo

[Phi for All]

38 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

This isn't to honour military members. 

Certainly not the ones who got captured, or the ones who think they know ISIS better than the POTUS, or the ones who complain about roadside IEDs. I've never, ever heard a POTUS deride the military as much as Trump, so his intentions with this parade can't include support of the troops, unless he's lying or something.

[Ten oz]

Trump has been a public figure for 40yrs. I am unaware of him ever honoring anyone other than himself. 

Phi for All makes an excellent point about the rhetoric Trump has already used talking about our veterans. It is also worth pointing out that there are many veterans in the intelligence community, FBI, and DOJ yet Trump insults them endlessly. 

[Phi for All]

41 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

That is how presidents traditionally show gratitude. They go to them and not direct them to come to him and march before White House. 

Yes. The difference between humble gratitude for devoted service, and bending the knee to show fealty to the ruler.

[DrP]

14 hours ago, Phi for All said:

, unless he's lying or something.

...what? The POTUS lying!? Outside of covering up a minor personal embarrassment surely the POTUS would never lie to the public or the rest of the world - I mean if he got caught doing so it would just be TOO embarrassing for himself and the country surely. I don't believe for a second he'd be stupid enough to try it.    

[swansont]

16 hours ago, StringJunky said:

You could let him initiate it and with future presidents it can be adjusted to send out the right message internally and externally. There'll be a learning curve anyway on hitting the right note, whoever starts it. Look at the French example, nobody kicks off and says they are posturing,in an aggressive way,  do they? I'm not aware of any.

The French example started in 1880 , well before we could broadcast the information in real time to the rest of the world, and before there were tanks and missiles. If the US had been doing this on a regular basis all along we could point to tradition and precedent.

As others have noted, we have the 4th of July, Memorial day and Veteran's day with parades to honor our troops and our history. Trump's parade idea isn't about that. It's always about him.  

[Silvestru]

I pick no sides in your most recent election and I find Trump to be a bad influence on your state but  with that said, I feel like a lot of opinions about his decisions are ad hominem.

Parades also sounds like a waste of money to me especially in these times but I just cant picture so much press attention and negativity if Hilary Clinton won and proposed such a parade.

This is just a matter of opinion but it seems to me like you have reached a point where nothing he does could be right.

It's just cool (on this forum especially) these days to diss Trump and you have to be vocal about how much you hate him... 

If he would make a decision to temporarily cease any parades during his presidency because they are costly we would see posts about not honoring the proud US military and destroying the US image. This is just an objective observation on this and other similar posts based on trump's decisions. I am not a US citizen and have no experience in politics but maybe you will accept an honest opinion from the outside.

[Raider5678]

19 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

I pick no sides in your most recent election and I find Trump to be a bad influence on your state but  with that said, I feel like a lot of opinions about his decisions are ad hominem.

Parades also sounds like a waste of money to me especially in these times but I just cant picture so much press attention and negativity if Hilary Clinton won and proposed such a parade.

This is just a matter of opinion but it seems to me like you have reached a point where nothing he does could be right.

It's just cool (on this forum especially) these days to diss Trump and you have to be vocal about how much you hate him... 

If he would make a decision to temporarily cease any parades during his presidency because they are costly we would see posts about not honoring the proud US military and destroying the US image. This is just an objective observation on this and other similar posts based on trump's decisions. I am not a US citizen and have no experience in politics but maybe you will accept an honest opinion from the outside.

Well said. 

[Area54]

19 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

I pick no sides in your most recent election and I find Trump to be a bad influence on your state but  with that said, I feel like a lot of opinions about his decisions are ad hominem.

I can assure you that any remarks I make about Trump will be ad hominems and with full justification. I cannot recall any negative character description of him that I have found inaccurate. Large military parades are associated with totalitarian regimes that aggrandize the leadership. The motivation here is transparent. I am embarrassed on behalf of the American people that they have a narcicistic, lying, incompetent meglomaniac in charge of their country and, were I religious, I would be praying on a daily basis to protect them till his time in office is over. One hopes the Separation of Powers will be sufficient to see them through.

[swansont]

27 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Parades also sounds like a waste of money to me especially in these times but I just cant picture so much press attention and negativity if Hilary Clinton won and proposed such a parade.

This is all incredibly hypothetical, but you obviously missed Benghazi. And there's no indication that she would have suggested such a parade. There is no context for it, unlike with Trump.

Quote

This is just a matter of opinion but it seems to me like you have reached a point where nothing he does could be right.

Very little of what he has done is right. But instead of going with vague assertions, you could bring up individual actions, and we could discuss the legitimate objections to them, rather than passing it off as just hating Trump.

On the other hand, there is evidence of the GOP hating things that Obama proposed, despite having supported the proposal beforehand. If you have examples of this regarding Trump, let's discuss them. But leave the vague rhetoric out of the discussion, please.

Quote

It's just cool (on this forum especially) these days to diss Trump and you have to be vocal about how much you hate him... 

It's a science forum. We'd like to discuss facts, and back up what is said, and have everyone do that, rather than appeals to emotion.

 

 

[geordief]

11 minutes ago, Area54 said:

I can assure you that any remarks I make about Trump will be ad hominems and with full justification.

Indeed  ad homunculums are applicable in his case (although overuse and misapplication can be counter productive)

 

His "authoritative" dismissal of climate change concerns is justification enough for me to feel personal hate for the man and his coterie.

 

That is damage that can't be undone.

 

B.Dylan's "Masters of War" runs through my head.

Edited February 8, 2018 by geordief

[Ten oz]

58 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Parades also sounds like a waste of money to me especially in these times but I just cant picture so much press attention and negativity if Hilary Clinton won and proposed such a parade.

This is a false comparison. No other Presidents in the modern era, or ever to my knowledge, have done this. It is unique and specific to Trump himself. There is absolutely no reason to assume there is any likelihood Clinton would have entertained such an idea. Also the criticism it not one sided partisanship as implied by your post. Many in Trump's own party have rejected the idea.

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, Silvestru said:

I pick no sides in your most recent election and I find Trump to be a bad influence on your state but  with that said, I feel like a lot of opinions about his decisions are ad hominem.

The US has NEVER had a person with such extreme views at the helm, so I can see how you might mistake criticism for ad hominem. Trump has defied sound advice and protocols over and over, and has been a constant voice of division and fear mongering. He has completely destroyed what little confidence we had in our media, and used that distrust to further push us away from any truths but his. He continues to run his businesses and profit from the exposure he gets from being POTUS. He attacks the justice system that's investigating his sketchier influences. He has told so many lies and exaggerated so many statements that we're almost numb to it. And his narcissism is legendary, always has been, so since he tends to make everything about himself, I can see how you mistake any naysaying as directed at him personally.

But I think you're wrong about these criticisms being fallacious. Can't help it if the evidence piling up paints him badly personally as well as in his position as POTUS. 

 

[Silvestru]

 

12 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

The US has NEVER had a person with such extreme views at the helm, so I can see how you might mistake criticism for ad hominem.

You members that are US citizens of course know much better and see the effects of his presidency on your daily lives. That's why I made my first post. 

I just wanted to understand and to express my view which was not based on facts(I don't live there so Trump-related news impacts me less so I am not so educated on the matter). I never said that the criticisms against him are fallacious. But I just felt like the opinions were: F you and F your decisions. And not just F your decisions; if you can understand that metaphor.

The way that you guys replied to my post with arguments and facts and not from a place of emotion, made me understand and change my initial opinion. Thank you

Edited February 8, 2018 by Silvestru

[Phi for All]

9 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

The way that you guys replied to my post with arguments and facts and not from a place of emotion, made me understand and change my initial opinion. Thank you

Well said. Reasoning and critical thinking skills should come first. Once I'm on a reasonable course, then I can allow my passion to take over.

[Alex_Krycek]

On 2/7/2018 at 6:15 PM, StringJunky said:

I think it depends on how it's done, presented and perceived. I don't think it's wrong, in principle, to honour people who are prepared to die for what they believe to be right and their country. It could be a parade of service people and not loads of military hardware, just  symbolic pieces representing a service. Don't forget, the military do plenty of non-military things, like aiding disaster efforts and rescues.

There's much better ways to honor the military.  Give each active service member a financial bonus.  Improve the VA hospitals.  Stop treating veterans like absolute garbage when they return from a war.  End the wars.  

The parade is just for Trump, for his gratification and his ego.  He doesn't really care about the military.  He only cares about his own self image.  That's the nauseating part.   

Edited February 8, 2018 by Alex_Krycek

[CharonY]

53 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

 

The way that you guys replied to my post with arguments and facts and not from a place of emotion, made me understand and change my initial opinion. Thank you

I think it is simply based on misunderstanding how silly US politics can be. I am not sure whether you heard, but during Obama's term folks (i.e. Fox and right-wing pundits) were criticizing for example the fact that he once wore a taupe suit, had a certain mustard on his burger and tried to make a scandal out of him forgetting to salute a marine (or rather, he forgot then came back to salute). Each of these events ended up on the news. 

Considering these minor things the threshold, a military parade would likely cause a meltdown of sorts. 

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Well said. 

Which part?

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Which part?

That a lot of these threads have shown up.

Come to read it thought he said posts, not threads.

My mistake.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Raider5678