Lack of bipartisanship (split from Liberal Views Explained)

[Ten oz]

37 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Good point. Voting only the party line is admitting the candidate helped the party get elected, instead of the other way around. Is it liberal or conservative to want an actual representative in government? I also think of lock-step voting as being a barrier rather than a bridge, as if you're trying to stop something from happening rather than trying to work towards something better.

"House Speaker Paul Ryan says he has no interest in working with Democrats on getting health care legislation passed, disputing a suggestion by the White House to reach across the aisle and bypass conservative House Republicans."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/03/30/politics/paul-ryan-democrats-health-care/index.html#ampshare=http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/politics/paul-ryan-democrats-health-care/index.html

Republicans make no bones about. They are not interested in bipartisanship. They blocked Obama's SCOTUS nominee for a year demanding a super majority then changed the rules and seated Trump's pick with a simple majority. In my opinion the reason for such divisive partisanship rests at the feet of Republicans who have adopted a scorched-earth combative approach towards power which punishes compromise and views Political victory as a more important goal than the health and well being of the nation.

[Phi for All]

29 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

"House Speaker Paul Ryan says he has no interest in working with Democrats on getting health care legislation passed, disputing a suggestion by the White House to reach across the aisle and bypass conservative House Republicans."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/03/30/politics/paul-ryan-democrats-health-care/index.html#ampshare=http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/politics/paul-ryan-democrats-health-care/index.html

Republicans make no bones about. They are not interested in bipartisanship. They blocked Obama's SCOTUS nominee for a year demanding a super majority then changed the rules and seated Trump's pick with a simple majority. In my opinion the reason for such divisive partisanship rests at the feet of Republicans who have adopted a scorched-earth combative approach towards power which punishes compromise and views Political victory as a more important goal than the health and well being of the nation.

To me, this isn't a liberal/conservative issue. This is just assholes who've been conditioned to think winning is everything. These are the same assholes who complain about how bad traffic is when it's their constant jockeying for top position that creates the bad traffic. These are the same assholes who cheat to win rather than work to win. And unfortunately, they convinced a bunch of us that asshole behavior is what you need to be a winner, and if you aren't an asshole, you're a snowflake.

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

This is just assholes who've been conditioned to think winning is everything. 

 

Agreed.

The goal of life is not to win every argument there is, but to win the ones that truly matter.

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

Agreed.

The goal of life is not to win every argument there is, but to win the ones that truly matter.

I would say the goal is to live your life honestly and do the least damage to others in the process. 

[iNow]

Said another way, recognize that winning isn’t only a selfish thing. We can “win” when the most possible people are helped. 

[Phi for All]

15 hours ago, iNow said:

Said another way, recognize that winning isn’t only a selfish thing. We can “win” when the most possible people are helped. 

Exactly. We're humans. We cooperate better than any other creature. We communicate more intricately. All the best things our high intelligence allows us to do we do together. When we're trying to arrange a successful society, individuals should be empowered to do their best, and this empowerment should never be diminished by private pursuits. 

We need to remind the selfish assholes that it was "us" who made their lives possible. It wasn't them, it wasn't the job creators, it wasn't the politicians, it wasn't the managers, and it wasn't the workers. It was all of us, and it works best when it works best for us all.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

We're humans. We cooperate better than any other creature.

It doesn't subtract from your broader point, which I find valid, but I'm unsure I agree with this particular (off-topic) point. Could make an interesting thread on its own.

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

We need to remind the selfish assholes that it was "us" who made their lives possible. It wasn't them, it wasn't the job creators, it wasn't the politicians, it wasn't the managers, and it wasn't the workers. It was all of us, and it works best when it works best for us all.

That didn't go over so well when Obama raised a similar point. Do you remember the fallout from "you didn't build that" during the 2012 presidential campaign?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_didn't_build_that

[Phi for All]

On 2/6/2018 at 12:52 PM, iNow said:

That didn't go over so well when Obama raised a similar point. Do you remember the fallout from "you didn't build that" during the 2012 presidential campaign?

He flubbed that speech, imo. I remember the intentional misrepresentation of the spirit of his words, even after they'd been explained. For such a wonderful orator, he missed a golden opportunity to send a message most of us need very badly, that everything we have was made possible by those who went before, and the best things we'll ever have are the ones we make together. You alone didn't build that, it took many people working together. 

[Ten oz]

50 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

He flubbed that speech, imo. I remember the intentional misrepresentation of the spirit of his words, even after they'd been explained. For such a wonderful orator, he missed a golden opportunity to send a message most of us need very badly, that everything we have was made possible by those who went before, and the best things we'll ever have are the ones we make together. You alone didn't build that, it took many people working together. 

I think Trump as President is proof that nothing Obama could ever have said would have made a difference to those opposed. Early last week a guy I know at told me it was undeniable Trump's policies, tax cuts specifically, were great for the economy and that despite his bad language of twitter Trump was doing a great job. I mentioned that we (USA) failed to reach GDP predictions for the 4th quarter and the deficit had grown significantly. He cited the Stock Market. I told him the Market was inflated and would fall sooner rather than later. He noted that I had been saying that since the fall and it hadn't happened yet and insisted I just was refusing to give Trump the credit he deserved. He sarcastically laughed as repeated "come on, just look at the Stock Market" . That was just last week. Today the same guy said the current correction was no big deal and was to be expected. He even used the fact I had been expecting to saying it wasn't surprising or any fault of Trump. 

Now I am not saying it was Trump's fault. Rather I am  pointing out the obvious contradiction. When stocks are up it is proof Trump is good and caution is just Trump hatred. When stocks are down it is to be expect and unrelated to Trump. Those who support Trumpism and the Republican Party rationalize everything in their own way. Doesn't matter how careful a point is made.