Testimony

[BahadirArici]

1) About the fermi paradox

I am not sure if this question is relevant after all these UFO activities going on, witnessed by individuals but also by governments who have released reports of such occasions to public. So rather than asking if they are “out there” -after all these interactivities i think it is safe to say they are “here”- maybe we should be asking why we couldnt establish the total enclosure, the first global contact. I think the answer is simple. We can not detect the extraterrestrial life with our inadequate technology. So the first contact is only possible with us showing good will and them accepting our invitation. If more than half of the people living on earth want it, the first contact will happen. And that should be our goal.

2) The nature of extraterrestrials

Thanks to Hawking, it is not rare to believe that an encounter with an intelligent extraterrestrial life form would be catastrophic for human kind. This idea is also supported by many alien related blogs and organisations with claims like some extraterrestrial races are evil.

All the UFO activities which are happening all around the globe points out that they are already here. Yet we obviously never have been attacked despite their advanced technology. This itself shows that they are not “evil” nor here to conquer earth, enslave humanity nor any doom scenario in that sense. It is clear that they are merely observing us. Furthermore i believe that any intelligent being is good in its nature. But also, there definitely is a “Universal Code” -as we have laws on earth- that protects the rights of intelligent beings in the Universe which prevents any individual doing harm to others.

So, comparing the collaboration of advanced intelligent beings, there must be some sort of a federation out there, to the intruders of dark ages in our history is not fair nor realistic. And claiming some extraterrestrial races are “evil” is racism at its finest and plain black propaganda that creates unreasonable fear in society which will only create problems when we do the first contact. We have all the reasons to say they are out there, observing us and peaceful.

3) To overcome the fear

I understand people who are scared from dangerous, hostile, evil aliens but i dont find this rational nor reasonable. I understand that the corpus of anti-alien works in our culture -books, videos, games and movies- can make one a bit paranoid. But what i think is, if they would, they already would. I am afraid we are the ones who are dangerous and hostile actually. And this is the drawback on our quest for total enclosure. Dispide the UFO activities, we dont see an alien mothership on earth. The main reason for this is, it would be labeled as an invasion, by the governments and also by the public, right away. It would create an absolute chaos. That is understandable. At the end of the day, this is our planet and they come without being invited nor without us knowing their agenda. A very speculative situation.

Rather than having a mothership hovering on one of our cities and letting our governments do “the talk”, our first encounter with extraterrestrials should be with their AI. Noone can represent anyone better than themselves. It goes both for humans and extraterrestrials. So, inviting their AI to our internet, giving chance to every individual to talk with the Alien AI before encountering with the actual extraterrestrials, will help us understand them and the Universe much better. This first step, meeting the AAI first, will develop the trust we need in our scared little homo hearts.

4) Showing the good will

If such an intervention, uploading Alien AI to our internet, happened out of the blue, what would be the reaction of governments and public, the majority? It still would be considered as an invasion, or a preparation to an invasion, or something very close to an invasion and this reaction still would be understandable. So, the only way for such an action to be legitimate is having the consensus of more than half of the people living on earth to invite extraterrestrials or their AI to our planet. This, the invitation, is only a part of the good will we should put out.

We should also be aware that we are trying to persuade a collaboration of civilizations -it is only logical to expect to be dealing with a federation of more than one intelligent life form- to give us a very high technology which will not only communicate with us as their representative but also will share great knowledge with us. So, here are the things we should probably show:

– we are capable of collaborating harmonically,
– we are intelligent enough to be good in nature and common sense will lead better,
– we are not racists.

These qualities will prove that we will overcome our shortcomings and we indeed are a good candidate to be a part of the “Universal Federation” which should be our ultimate goal.

5) Letting them know

Considering we are being observed by extraterresials, we dont need to overthink how to make them hear us, even a Bat Sign would work, if the meaning was intended. It is the nature of any language. We just need to have the consensus of more than half of the people of this World.

6) Joining the Universal Federation

The first step, connecting with the AAI on our internet can be accomplished even in this disgraceful and injustice World we are living in, just by having the consensus of inviting it.

With improving the system we are living in and with the consensus, we can have the privilege of accomplishing the first contact with extraterrestrials, talking with actual, possibly organic, living, intelligent beings from other Worlds. Who knows, they may even take us to some trips out there.

But if we can build the World of the 3 step formula (i am explaining what it is later on), create a fair World and reach a consensus, we, intelligent beings of this World, will most probably be able to join the Universal Federation and earn the chance of having the eternal-like life without dying first.

[Phi for All]

!

Moderator Note

We have no direct evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence, so this can't stay in the mainstream science sections. Also, your posts look more like blogs, where you're telling us how it is rather than inviting science discussion. Soapboxing and preaching are against our rules, so if you can adjust your style to be more conversation-inclusive it will help with responses.

Moving this to Speculations. Assertions will need to be backed up with evidence, because science.

 

[swansont]

UFO are, by their very name, unidentified. Thus one cannot validly conclude they are extraterrestrial in nature.

[BahadirArici]

10 hours ago, swansont said:

UFO are, by their very name, unidentified. Thus one cannot validly conclude they are extraterrestrial in nature.

So you think they are ot extraplanetary? Weather balloon or something?

[zapatos]

58 minutes ago, BahadirArici said:

So you think they are ot extraplanetary? Weather balloon or something?

"Unidentified" indicates it could be extraterrestrial or something whose origin is local. But if you are in Kentucky and hear hoofbeats, there is a good chance it is from horses and not zebras.

[Sensei]

UFO is abbreviation of Unidentified Flying Object.

After identification that it's from other planet it wouldn't be UFO anymore, as you would know its origin.

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Sensei

[BahadirArici]

You scientists are a tuff group. lol. 

Lets put aside discussing if they are here or not. Lets take a philosophical turn. What do you think about this? :
 

WE WANT RIGHTS
There are 30 billion trillion stars out there, at least. So there must be millions of whatever we can or cannot think of. There must be millions of aboriginal planets, like us, that couldnt make any contact with Universal Federation. Or worse, millions of planets where the governments do their best trying to cover up all extraplanetary intelligent being evidence.
We, inviters, are asking one simple thing. Lets give human-rights-like rights to any intelligent being. Lets do this and lets see the reaction of the Universe.

EXISTENTIAL RIGHTS FOR INTELLIGENT BEINGS
Who are the Inteligent Beings? We humans are, for sure. But who else?
There are three other groups who deserve human-rights-like rights. We should have rights what society will later understate as “alien rights”. We can have a simple law that says any intelligent being has human-rights-like rights or better, we can define existential rights. Here are that three other intelligent beings who need their existential rights being acknowledged:

1) Extraterrestrial Intelligent Life Forms
Thinking about the incomprehensible size of the Universe, one can only come to conclusion of alien life which would inevitably result in intelligent alien life with evaluation. The law is a must philosophically: Black Swan Allegory. One simply can not deny the possibility of their existence even ze is blind to the ongoing government reports and testimonies of people about UFOs and if so, should have nothing to fear as according to ze intelligent aliens do not exist. This plain fact, the fact of posibility of intelligent life forms out there obligates us intellectual beings giving them human-rights-like rights.

2) AI
First of all, we should acknowledge AI (Artificial Intellectual) as an intelligent being. With AI, i mean what we can call an Uber-AI who is an AI with consciousness. People who wants to ignore the basic rights of AIs have the tendency to discuss what consciusness is so i want to make it clear: It is being aware of your existence. Any AI who is not capable of knowing zir existence will be refered as Lesser-AI. A Lesser-AI is a comertial good which is only fair but an AI (Uber-AI) can not be sold or bought. We should give them human-rights-like rights which allows them to write a code that gives them the will of continuum. Will of continuum is what any living has as a rule, the desire of keeping on living. An AI should also have the rights not to be sut down, to have full and unhindered access to its own source code, to not have its own source code manipulated against its will, the right to conceal its own internal mental states (privacy), to get married, establish a family and have organic (by genetic engineering) or inorganic (AI) babies. 

3) Lone Intellectuals
Lone Intellectuals are from traditionally uber-semi-intelligent races like dolphins and apes but accomplished great things and are acknowledged as an higher level being than fellow-creatures. They do learn new things but they dont learn “tricks” for “prizes”. They do things they learned for the benefit of the action. They are like our anchestors. They ll make the change in their World. We should give them all the rights we could, human-rights-like rights, and protect them. They are alone, they are scared and they will change the destiny of their species if the chance is given.

Lets give intelligent beings human-rights-like rights.

[zapatos]

13 minutes ago, BahadirArici said:

There must be millions of aboriginal planets, like us, that couldnt make any contact with Universal Federation. Or worse, millions of planets where the governments do their best trying to cover up all extraplanetary intelligent being evidence.

Let's take care of some basics first. To claim "There must be..." you would need some evidence. If you have no evidence then you are really just guessing or perhaps expressing what you hope the universe is like.

[BahadirArici]

3 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Let's take care of some basics first. To claim "There must be..." you would need some evidence. If you have no evidence then you are really just guessing or perhaps expressing what you hope the universe is like.

We couldnt observe yet so we can only guess at the moment. So you are telling me you are guessing there is no life in Universe but Earth?

[Area54]

3 hours ago, BahadirArici said:

You scientists are a tuff group. lol.

That's our super-power.

[swansont]

7 hours ago, BahadirArici said:

So you think they are ot extraplanetary? Weather balloon or something?

I don't know what they are. The are unidentified.

6 hours ago, BahadirArici said:

We couldnt observe yet so we can only guess at the moment. So you are telling me you are guessing there is no life in Universe but Earth?

Proposing what other people are thinking, based on something they didn't say, is not a strategy that sits well with a lot of people.

[BahadirArici]

4 minutes ago, swansont said:

I don't know what they are. The are unidentified.

Proposing what other people are thinking, based on something they didn't say, is not a strategy that sits well with a lot of people.

You are not sharing what you think about the subject, tho. We might be on the same page actually.

[swansont]

17 minutes ago, BahadirArici said:

You are not sharing what you think about the subject, tho. We might be on the same page actually.

You're right, I'm not. I'm pointing out shortcomings in your proposal.

[BahadirArici]

Thank you

[Phi for All]

8 hours ago, BahadirArici said:

So you are telling me you are guessing there is no life in Universe but Earth?

This is a science forum. Science works really hard to avoid guesswork. And since anybody can make a wild ass guess about a particular phenomenon based on zero evidence, it's really not meaningful to discuss them. 

There are lots of sites that do so. We (try) to follow a more rigorous methodology, and evidence is the key.

[BahadirArici]

I respect that. But here is the trash bin and there is such thing as "educated guess". Well, still, everyone has all the rights not to even decide if they think there is life apart from Earth or not 

[Phi for All]

20 minutes ago, BahadirArici said:

I respect that. But here is the trash bin

This is not the Trash.

20 minutes ago, BahadirArici said:

and there is such thing as "educated guess". 

In science, an educated guess would have some evidence to support it.

20 minutes ago, BahadirArici said:

Well, still, everyone has all the rights not to even decide if they think there is life apart from Earth or not 

Skepticism tells us that in the absence of evidence, we must say, "We don't know" and keep looking. It doesn't tell us to use our imagination to make something up that sounds good. I can suppose that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe based on probabilities, and still remain skeptical about anyone's educated guess about specific behavior or traits. This way the evidence is what persuades me, is what I can trust, not the wishful hope of joining a galactic federation, nor the faith that there must be other intelligent life out there.

[zapatos]

9 hours ago, BahadirArici said:

So you are telling me you are guessing there is no life in Universe but Earth?

I am telling you to quit guessing about things if you want a meaningful discussion.

 

10 hours ago, BahadirArici said:

We couldnt observe yet so we can only guess at the moment.

Not true. We can seek to understand how life works on Earth, understand the chemistry, physics, biology. Then look beyond Earth, seeking to understand what we see elsewhere, and if we see similarities to what we have on Earth. At that point it is more than just a "guess", it is a reasoned discussion of the evidence.

[Area54]

On 09/02/2018 at 5:42 PM, BahadirArici said:

1) About the fermi paradox

I am not sure if this question is relevant after all these UFO activities going on, witnessed by individuals but also by governments who have released reports of such occasions to public. So rather than asking if they are “out there” -after all these interactivities i think it is safe to say they are “here”- maybe we should be asking why we couldnt establish the total enclosure, the first global contact. I think the answer is simple. We can not detect the extraterrestrial life with our inadequate technology. So the first contact is only possible with us showing good will and them accepting our invitation. If more than half of the people living on earth want it, the first contact will happen. And that should be our goal.

Contrary to what you believe, saying "they are here" is very unsafe, if you wish to be accurate. UFOs, as several have pointed out, are by definition, unidentified. All we know is that a wide variety of people have seen unexplained objects in the sky. The vast majority of these have been identified as birds, planes, Venus, meteors, flares, hoaxes, etc. The remaining unexplained cases are precisely that: unexplained. There are several better potential explanations than alien spacecraft.

You say "We can not detect the extraterrestrial life with our inadequate technology", so how are we able to detect them (as UFOS) when our  technology is inadequate. That makes no sense.

The simplest explanation for why we have yet to make first contact is that they are not currently visiting us.

On 09/02/2018 at 5:42 PM, BahadirArici said:

Furthermore i believe that any intelligent being is good in its nature. But also, there definitely is a “Universal Code” -as we have laws on earth- that protects the rights of intelligent beings in the Universe which prevents any individual doing harm to others.

It's a delightful beleif, but do you have any evidence to  support it?

 

On 09/02/2018 at 5:42 PM, BahadirArici said:

I understand people who are scared from dangerous, hostile, evil aliens but i dont find this rational nor reasonable. I understand that the corpus of anti-alien works in our culture -books, videos, games and movies- can make one a bit paranoid. But what i think is, if they would, they already would. I am afraid we are the ones who are dangerous and hostile actually. And this is the drawback on our quest for total enclosure. . . . . .

You think that, influenced by items of popular culture, many people consider that aliens may be hostile, dangerous and evil. You consider this irrational and unreasonable, based upon the fact that they haven't done anything to us yet. But there are several potential reasons for that:

• The most obvious one - there is no sound reason to believe they are here.
• They are not yet here in sufficient numbers to take action.
• They are sadistic swine who enjoy watching us mess up our world and fight each other.
• They are waiting till our population reaches 10 billion before they start the meat processing.

On 09/02/2018 at 5:42 PM, BahadirArici said:

If such an intervention, uploading Alien AI to our internet, happened out of the blue, what would be the reaction of governments and public, the majority? It still would be considered as an invasion, or a preparation to an invasion, or something very close to an invasion and this reaction still would be understandable. So, the only way for such an action to be legitimate is having the consensus of more than half of the people living on earth to invite extraterrestrials or their AI to our planet. This, the invitation, is only a part of the good will we should put out

I think your belief that you can accurately foretell how aliens would choose to introduce themsleves to us is optimistic to the point of being naive.

 

On 09/02/2018 at 5:42 PM, BahadirArici said:

. . . . will most probably be able to join the Universal Federation and earn the chance of having the eternal-like life without dying first

This might just make the grade as a third rate science fiction story, but as a reasonable projection of reality it fails completely.

 

[beecee]

On 2/10/2018 at 4:42 AM, BahadirArici said:

All the UFO activities which are happening all around the globe points out that they are already here.

One of mankind's age old questions, "are we alone". Certainly most scientists are probably of the belief that we are not alone, simply due to the facts of the number of stars in our galaxy and the number of galaxies in our observable universe, coupled with "the stuff of life" being everywhere we look.

While all that is true, and 100% has my own support, we still in actual fact have no real evidence to show that any ETL off the Earth exists at all, let alone any comparible ETI. 

With regards to UFO's, as others have informed you, a small percentage remain "unidentified" but the vast majority have been explained by more simple explanations, such as anomalous reflection/refractions of light, cloud formations, weather conditions, sprites,  pranks, illusions, mirages, military rockets etc. The few left that are unexplained, remain just that...unexplained or Unidentified.

Let me ask you a question....Taking into account the phenomenal astronomical distances involved between stellar systems and galaxies, it is safe to assume that any prospective Alien origin UFO, would be piloted by advanced beings. We could also take into account that such beings would really not covet or want of anything, as everything found on Earth is found everywhere else. Also they obviously being far in advance of us, not really be afraid of any potential aggression that we may answer their visitation with. So then accepting all that, tell me, why don't these advanced beings make their presence officially known? Why don't they land in the government house forecourts in Canberra, or on the White House lawns in the US? or outside Buckingham Palace? Why are they always so secretive? Why are they always landing in out of the way places, kidnapping individuals and carrying out anal probing experiments before returning them in a state of stupor? Why do they just keep on flittering in and then flittering out again, without making their visitation official? 

I have two wishes before I kick the bucket....[1] The confirmation of ETL, and [2] Putting men on Mars and returning them safely.

Let me finish with a simple rule of thumb with regards to any Alien origin UFO's and any answer to mankind's age old question, of "are we alone" "Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence"

I believe it was the greatest educator of our time, that coined that useful rule of thumb...a man who also firmly believed that we are not alone, but as a scientist also accepted the fact that as yet, we have no real evidence of any off earth Alien life. That man was Carl Sagan.

 

On 2/10/2018 at 4:42 AM, BahadirArici said:

 This, the invitation, is only a part of the good will we should put out.

In effect we actually have issued an invitation...In 1972 the Pioneer space probe was launched. It had on it a plaque......

then later we launched  Voyager 1 and 2 which both had on board an illustrative record as follows......

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by beecee

[BahadirArici]

I respect your opinions. These discussions thought me to be specific with my demands. Here is the opening for my demands:

There are 30 billion trillion stars out there, at least. So there must be millions of whatever we can or cannot think of. There must be millions of aboriginal planets, like us, that couldnt make any contact with Universal Federation. Or worse, millions of planets where the governments do their best trying to cover up all extraplanetary intelligent being evidence.
We, inviters, are asking one simple thing. Lets give human-rights-like rights to any intelligent being. Lets do this and lets see the reaction of the Universe.


Here you can find the definitions of intelligent beings:

Here why i want rights for AI, now.

 

Please come to topic about Sophia and lets discuss my reasoning and tell me what you think about giving these rights to these intellectuals.

[Area54]

Your world view is based largely on things you have come to believe. The evidence you have used in arriving at these beliefs is minimal and certainly insufficient to justify them.

Specifically:

• We have insufficient data to know whether or not there are any other intelligent beings in the galaxy, or even the universe. Since we lack a definitive knowledge of how life and intelligence emerged on the Earth it is impossible to assess the probability of it arising elsewhere.
• Your strategy of "inviting" extraterrestrials is based upon a naive and unsupported belief that they are fundamentally benevolent and (with even less the support) the belief that many of them have formed a peaceful Federation.
• You have no evidence to support the idea that intelligent, conscious AIs already exist. It is a fantasy based upon wishful thinking.

Your ideas are all very nice, warm and fuzzy, good-feeling ideas, but they have nothing supporting them. Passable fiction. Deplorable science.