Aging of two causes

[fredreload]

1. Let us look at two cell samples from the same person, one cell from 30 years old, the other one from 50 years old.

2. Alright, so we figured out that the cause of aging is from the upshift or downshift of gene expression, because we agree there is no changes to the cell's DNA.

3. The first cause of the shifting of the gene expression could be internal, or from within the cell, we figure out what it is, and we reverse it.

4. The second cause of the shifting of the gene expression could be external, or from the hormones or cell signaling molecules, we figure out what it is, and we reverse it.

[Area54]

7 minutes ago, fredreload said:

2. Alright, so we figured out that the cause of aging is from the upshift or downshift of gene expression, because we agree there is no changes to the cell's DNA.

I'm not very well versed in genetics, but my understanding was that the cell's DNA changes on each instance of mitosis, with the length of the telomeres being reduced. Since this is thought to be intimately connected with aging, don't you think you are barking up the wrong DNA helix?

[Endy0816]

Cells become senescent(stop dividing and other changes) based on the length. Has been found that removing senescent cells can lead to improvement.

Cells can simply lengthen their telomeres too, but we are not good enough at handling cancer yet to safely use that route.

Ultimately we'll need complex cellular repair, lifespan can be increased in the meantime though.

[fredreload]

1 hour ago, Area54 said:

I'm not very well versed in genetics, but my understanding was that the cell's DNA changes on each instance of mitosis, with the length of the telomeres being reduced. Since this is thought to be intimately connected with aging, don't you think you are barking up the wrong DNA helix?

The four statements that I made is a proof that the aging process is a universal process for all cells and all humans.

To counteract the internal aging process that occurs within the cell you could look into induced pluripotent stem cells. The idea is that when a cell is brought into its stem cell state. All DNA damage, telomere length, and mitochondrial damage are restored. I can't emphasized this statement enough.

Now what kind of cell signaling molecules could cause such a change. It is listed here. I do not advise you to inject them, but it is a start that would induce partial repogramming to all the cells in the body.

Edited February 10, 2018 by fredreload

[Area54]

3 minutes ago, fredreload said:

The four statements that I made is a proof that the aging process is a universal process for all cells and all humans.

To counteract the internal aging process that occurs within the cell you could look into induced pluripotent stem cells. The idea is that when a cell is brought into its stem cell state. All DNA damage, telomere length, and mitochondrial damage are restored. I can't emphasized this statement enough.

Now what kind of cell signaling molecules could cause such a change. It is listed here. I do not advise you to inject them, but it is a start that would induce partial repogramming to all the cells in the body.

Well thank you for your reply, but you seem to have missed my point. My apologies for not being clear.

You assert that when comparing the cells from an individual when they are 30 and when they are 50 that we will find  "there is no changes to the cell's DNA".

I have pointed out that the telomere length is different, therefore your statement is false.

You cannot prove something using false statements.

[fredreload]

Just now, Area54 said:

Well thank you for your reply, but you seem to have missed my point. My apologies for not being clear.

You assert that when comparing the cells from an individual when they are 30 and when they are 50 that we will find  "there is no changes to the cell's DNA".

I have pointed out that the telomere length is different, therefore your statement is false.

You cannot prove something using false statements.

Well you see, telomere length changes is not the actual changes to the physical DNA structure. My guess is that it is a marking on the DNA during the upshift or downshift process of the gene expression. But I could be wrong, but hey, if you look into the induced pluripotent stem cell, you'll realized that telomere length could be restored.

[Area54]

The telomere is an integral part of the DNA. If its length changes then the physical DNA structure has changed.

Why are you guessing what it is, when we know what it is? And here's a hint - it's not a "marking on the DNA during the upshift or downshift process of gene epxression". So yes, I think you are wrong, and I suspect you may know less about genetics than I do, which would be dire indeed.

I agree that we may be able to use tehcniques to restore telomere length. I was not arguing against that. I was pointing out a fatal error in your argument. My recommendation is that you restate your argument, avoiding that fatal error. On the other hand, if your primary objective is to be ignored then I would suggest keeping it as it is.

[fredreload]

34 minutes ago, Area54 said:

The telomere is an integral part of the DNA. If its length changes then the physical DNA structure has changed.

Why are you guessing what it is, when we know what it is? And here's a hint - it's not a "marking on the DNA during the upshift or downshift process of gene epxression". So yes, I think you are wrong, and I suspect you may know less about genetics than I do, which would be dire indeed.

I agree that we may be able to use tehcniques to restore telomere length. I was not arguing against that. I was pointing out a fatal error in your argument. My recommendation is that you restate your argument, avoiding that fatal error. On the other hand, if your primary objective is to be ignored then I would suggest keeping it as it is.

Well if you look at it that way then I suppose yes DNA is changed because of shortening of telomere length. But I do want to note that induced pluripotent stem cell seems to have a way of regenerating this lost DNA segment with techniques still unknown to us.

[Area54]

That's great. I'm just pointing out that if you retain your original argument then pedantic, confrontational, nit-picking perfectionists like me will ignore your central message. The choice and the freedom are yours.

[fredreload]

Well, I just want a few viles of this potion, make sure it is working, and one for each of my grandma, they are in their 80's.

P.S Walking to the nearest Pharmaceuticals

Edited February 10, 2018 by fredreload

[Endy0816]

54 minutes ago, fredreload said:

Well if you look at it that way then I suppose yes DNA is changed because of shortening of telomere length. But I do want to note that induced pluripotent stem cell seems to have a way of regenerating this lost DNA segment with techniques still unknown to us.

Telomerase is well known and understood...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

It isn't a cure all though. Increases a natural count down timer. That's not hugely complex.

 

Right now they are looking at moving to clinical trials, for drugs targeting senescent cells, but going to take time. Need to come to grips with the idea of mortality.

www.cnn.com/2017/09/04/health/anti-aging-senolytic-drugs-clinical-trials-study/index.html

[fredreload]

3 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

Telomerase is well known and understood...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

It isn't a cure all though. Increases a natural count down timer. That's not hugely complex.

 

Right now they are looking at moving to clinical trials, for drugs targeting senescent cells, but going to take time. Need to come to grips with the idea of mortality.

www.cnn.com/2017/09/04/health/anti-aging-senolytic-drugs-clinical-trials-study/index.html

Hmm, if you take a look at this chart I posted. For the signaling pathway, meaning the signaling molecules that interact with the cell and eventually trigger the correct transcription factor. The top is for the mouse and the bottom one is for human. You will see that the signaling molecules BMP4, Activin, Nodal, and FGF2 are actual proteins that could be purchased in the durg store. For instance BMP4 is an actual bone morphological protein.

This is something I found on the internet, but if I am in the late 80s I'd probably walk in and take a shot. I'd imagine the real thing is something of this variation. Although this chart is largely in theory I believe, but not actually tested.

So I'm dying to know the validity and potency of this chart since it correlates with the SALK's experiment on reverse aging long ago. The report says it takes 10 years for them to create the actual drug.

We would have to make sure that nothing goes wrong with this drug, that it would not result in creating caner cells by accident.

[Area54]

23 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

 Need to come to grips with the idea of mortality.

You are dead right there.

[Endy0816]

9 minutes ago, Area54 said:

You are dead right there.

Well... yes...

I don't think death is absolute, but there are a number of obstacles to overcome. Long-term need to artificially recreate the massive selection bias that led to us existing in the first place or master actual repair ourselves. Can't depend on a repair manual in need of repair.

[fredreload]