Real Time Travel

[herme3]

First of all, I'm sorry if anyone thinks this is in the wrong topic. I looked at all the topics, and I couldn't decide because different people will have different opinions about this post. Some may believe that this is fictional, or related to religion. However, I believe that this really happened, so I consider it to be real science.

 

Several years ago, there were a few teachers in an elevator at a college in Gettysburg. They went down into the basement for some reason. When the doors opened, they found themselves back in the Civil War! The basement was being used as a hospital. There were injured Civil War soldiers everywhere.

 

The teachers pushed a button on the elevator and went back to the upper level. Then they went back down to the basement. When the doors opened, they saw nothing but storage boxes. No matter how many times they tried, they could not go back in time again.

 

I have no reason to doubt that this story is true. I have been to Gettysburg, and I got real pictures of strange things with my own camera. Gettysburg is not a normal place. This is not religion that you can't find proof of. Any scientist can go to Gettysburg's battlefield at night and prove the existence of strange things in real science experiments.

 

There is also no way that multiple people could imagine the same thing and be able to describe the events in detail. This was a group of teachers, not a group of students that could be trying to get attention. Some of the teachers actually quit their jobs after this event.

 

Now, how would you scientifically explain this?

[JaKiri]

Now, how would you scientifically explain this?

 

I'd first find out if it was true.

 

If it was, I'd bring empiricism to bear. If the phenomenon was at odds with what we currently hold to be true, then we'd change what we'd hold to be true.

 

Of course, if you're asking us to try to explain how this is consistent with current science, then I'd have to say it isn't, and ask for independent proof of the event.

[herme3]

I'd first find out if it was true.

 

If it was' date=' I'd bring empiricism to bear. If the phenomenon was at odds with what we currently hold to be true, then we'd change what we'd hold to be true.

 

Of course, if you're asking us to try to explain how this is consistent with current science, then I'd have to say it isn't, and ask for independent proof of the event.[/quote']

 

Some of the teachers were interviewed on a TV show about strange things in Gettysburg. The story is also in a book about unexplainable events.

 

I guess the only way to prove this is to go into the college with a video camera. Of course, since nobody really knows what caused this to happen, it may be difficult to make it happen again.

 

Whether or not you can recreate this event, anyone can probably find proof of some events in Gettysburg that are not considered to be normal. Real scientists have gone there with electromagnetic equipment, and other things. Many have received results they can't explain.

[JaKiri]

Given that we haven no empirical data to go on and no actual evidence that this took place, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing here.

[herme3]

Given that we haven no empirical data to go on and no actual evidence that this took place, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing here.

 

I was wondering if we could come up with a type of scientific theory to explain how this happened. We use the term "supernatural" too often. I think we should try to figure out how things like this can happen without saying the people that experience "supernatural" events are crazy.

 

Strange things happen in our world all the time. Normally we end up classifying them as fiction or religion. I don't think all these events are fiction, and I doubt seeing the American Civil War happening during the 21st century is part of any religion. These are real events that should be studied using real science. Scientists should go to Gettysburg, collect data and perform experiments, and then try to come up with a reasonable explanation.

[JaKiri]

These are real events that should be studied using real science. Scientists should go to Gettysburg, collect data and perform experiments, and then try to come up with a reasonable explanation.

 

Scientists should do a lot of things, however, studying something which if true will probably be utterly incomprehensable isn't really one of them, as there are a limited number of scientists.

[Ophiolite]

I have no reason to doubt that this story is true.

! ? !

[herme3]

Scientists should do a lot of things, however, studying something which if true[/i'] will probably be utterly incomprehensable isn't really one of them, as there are a limited number of scientists.

 

Do you remember when there were only few scientists that believed the Earth was round hundreds of years ago? It was "utterly incomprehensible" that we could stand on something that is round and not fall off. How is the Gettysburg story any different from the disbelief of the shape of the Earth? Everything is "utterly incomprehensible" until we find an explanation.

[swansont]

Do you remember when there were only few scientists that believed the Earth was round hundreds of years ago? It was "utterly incomprehensible" that we could stand on something that is round and not fall off. How is the Gettysburg story any different from the disbelief of the shape of the Earth? Everything is "utterly incomprehensible" until we find an explanation.

 

Oh, dear. "Gravity was once unexplained, and this is unexplained, therefore this is just as true as gravity." Bzzzt. Surveys says: no, not valid logic. Thanks for playing.

 

Next time you might want to bring some evidence. Mounds of it, perhaps. And anecdotes do not constitute evidence.

[herme3]

Oh' date=' dear. "Gravity was once unexplained, and this is unexplained, therefore this is just as true as gravity." Bzzzt. Surveys says: no, not valid logic. Thanks for playing.

 

Next time you might want to bring some evidence. Mounds of it, perhaps. And anecdotes do not constitute evidence.[/quote']

 

Your ignorance is the same as the people that were convinced the Earth was flat hundreds of years ago. It seems that many people on this message board do not understand the meaning of science. If you lived had lived hundreds of years ago, you would be saying Christopher Columbus was crazy. This is just as true as gravity. We just need to understand it. If you want some evidence, I suggest you go to Gettysburg.

[zaphod]

herme3, get a clue

[[Tycho?]]

A ranting guy on the street told me he was from mars the other day.

 

Dont see any reason not to believe him I guess.

[Ophiolite]

Your ignorance is the same as the people that were convinced the Earth was flat hundreds of years ago.

So, Swansont, who has a Ph.D. in atomic physics. is ignorant. I quake in terror at what this makes me.

It seems that many people on this message board do not understand the meaning of science.

Many? Certainly some, and you should logically place yourself close to the top of the list.

 

I was wondering if we could come up with a type of scientific theory to explain how this happened.

Here is the essence of your problem: an ill-defined, unsubstantiated, poorly documented, anecdotal event, is taken by you to be factual and very real. That is not science, your approach is not scientific. It is an entertaining story;it is decidedly not evidence of time travel.

[swansont]

Your ignorance is the same as the people that were convinced the Earth was flat hundreds of years ago. It seems that many people on this message board do not understand the meaning of science. If you lived had lived hundreds of years ago, you would be saying Christopher Columbus was crazy. This is just as true as gravity. We just need to understand it. If you want some evidence, I suggest you go to Gettysburg.

 

Actually, I think my ignorance is quite different that those who were convinced the earth was flat hundreds of years ago (i.e. at the time of Columbus), considering that the earth has been known to be round for more than 2200 years (the circumference having been measured by Eratosthenes in 205 BC) Columbus assumed the earth was smaller than what the measurements said, making him more lucky than smart.

 

Here's some of the meaning of science: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You haven't even provided ordinary evidence. Just a ghost story.

[herme3]

You haven't even provided ordinary evidence. Just a ghost story.

 

Swansont, I did not mean that you are an ignorant person. You are probably a very intelligent person. I simply meant the fact you were denying the story was an example of ignorance. I admit that I have ignorance in some subjects. That doesn't mean that I am an ignorant person, and I certainly did not mean that you are an ignorant person. If there was any confusion in the way I said that, I am really sorry.

 

I have my own evidence of strange things in Gettysburg. I didn't want to get off the topic of the time travel incident, but I took pictures that many people say are ghost pictures. I put them on my web site at http://gettysburg.homestead.com and I posted about them on this message board before. Most of you said that there was something wrong with my camera, and the pictures didn't mean anything. At the time, I actually believed that.

 

However, I have had countless people e-mail me about my web site. They said that they have taken their own pictures that are very similar to mine. Look at the first picture in Jennie Wade's house. When I first took the picture I might have agreed that it was an optical illusion. However, other people have sent me pictures from the same house. In all of those pictures, there is a ghost-like figure standing in the EXACT same spot. It is standing beside the bed and chair. I've been to that house multiple times, and there is nothing there that could cause a reflection or anything like that.

 

Now, I think that is enough evidence to show that Gettysburg is not a normal place. After gathering my own evidence, I have no reason to doubt other stories of Gettysburg. I have over 5 books filled with stories that different people have told about Gettysburg. Why would all of these people make these stories up? I know they must go against our logic, and everything that we believe to be true. However, if we never increased the knowledge that we know is true, there would have never believe the Earth is round.

[Nicholas]

The arrow of time isn't a relative.

 

Time goes froward in every direction.

And directions are curved!

[swansont]

You really need to learn what a lens flare is.

[herme3]

You really need to learn what a lens flare[/url'] is.

 

Thank you for the link. I thought about the strange pictures being created by a lens flare. However, I just think that the first picture is much too human-like. If I was the only person to get a picture like that, I would agree that it must be something like a lens flare. However, lots of other people have taken similar pictures with their own cameras.

 

I do believe in using scientific evidence to prove things I don't understand. That is why I was very careful not to say my pictures have "ghosts" in them. Ghosts can't be scientifically proven yet, so I call them "ghost-like" objects because many people would say they are ghosts. My web site was designed to make people come up with their own opinions about my pictures. Even though I don't call them ghosts, I would say they are strange "ghost-like objects" that are only found in places like Gettysburg. The lens flare example does not look like my pictures.

 

Anyway, I think we are getting off topic. I would like to come up with some type of scientific explanation behind the "time travel" incident. I am not trying to say that ghosts caused the incident, or anything like that. I am just saying that this incident is one of the many unexplainable events that occur in Gettysburg. These events have been denied by scientists for so many years. I think the time has come for scientists to investigate, and try to come up with an answer. Only after a detailed investigation of these events can we say whether or not they really happen. There is no reason to deny something just because we have not been able to prove it. If there is enough scientific evidence to prove that these events are "normal" and simply exaggerated by the people that experience them, I will believe it. Until then, I am one of the few people that want to keep an open mind about these events.

 

I really wish there was a way to get more evidence and post it in this message board. However, I really don't know the best way to do that. Even if I did spend large amounts of time and money on an investigation, how would I prove the evidence is real? I would probably be criticized for creating artificial evidence even if it is real. This is a subject that multiple scientists should investigate.

[Ophiolite]

I thought about the strange pictures being created by a lens flare. However, I just think that the first picture is much too human-like.

We put the world into categories; we see patterns, even when they are not there; we look for the familiar. This is how the mind works. You are misleading yourself.

If I was the only person to get a picture like that, I would agree that it must be something like a lens flare. However, lots of other people have taken similar pictures with their own cameras.

And might the common factor here be that everyone is using a camera?

[Daecon]

If there really are all these gnarhly influences in Gettysburg, how come there isn't a constant research lab set up there with regular papers published on these happenings?

 

Surely it's like a scientific diamond mine?

[herme3]

If there really are all these gnarhly influences in Gettysburg' date=' how come there isn't a constant research lab set up there with regular papers published on these happenings?

 

Surely it's like a scientific diamond mine?[/quote']

 

That is exactly my point. Most scientists hear these stories, and deny them without ever going to Gettysburg. They should get together, build a research lab, and investigate these events.

[herme3]

We put the world into categories; we see patterns' date=' even when they are not there; we look for the familiar. This is how the mind works. You are misleading yourself.

And might the common factor here be that everyone is using a [i']camera[/i]?

 

There are many people that claim they actually saw a ghost without a camera. For example, my Grandma said she saw a ghost walking in her bedroom when she was really young. After she saw the ghost, her family researched the house and found out it was built on a cemetery.

 

I can't say that I ever saw a ghost. My only experience with anything ghost-like would be the pictures I took. However, my Grandma is not the type of person that would make up anything like that.

 

Some people have e-mailed my web site saying that they saw ghosts with their own eyes. I don't think they were trying to get attention. Many of them would not even give me their name because they were so afraid their friends and family would find out and think they are crazy.

[swansont]

That is exactly my point. Most scientists hear these stories, and deny them without ever going to Gettysburg. They should get together, build a research lab, and investigate these events.

 

Come up with some compelling evidence. Why should anyone risk wasting money on your project when they could be doing real research? You have to demonstrate that there is something worth investigating.

[Ophiolite]

I can't say that I ever saw a ghost.

I have seen ghosts on two occasions and heard one (in a group) on four other occasions. I do not believe any of these events require an investigation. Plausible and mundane explanations are available without resorting to the unknown.

As Swansont says, it needs substantially more evidence than you have presented thus far to merit even as much attention as we are giving it here.

[herme3]

Come up with some compelling evidence. Why should anyone risk wasting money on your project when they could be doing real research? You have to demonstrate that there is something worth investigating.

 

What would scientists consider to be compelling evidence? If you go to yahoo.com and look up, "Gettysburg Ghost" you will find 436,000 web sites. I looked at some of them, and I don't understand why so many people would lie about their experiences.

 

There actually is a Gettysburg Ghost Research organization at http://www.gettysburgghostresearch.org. This web site has evidence on it. This includes strange voices and pictures. However, how can anyone make scientists believe this evidence is real?