Gun control, which side wins?

[MigL]

Probably why people like D Trump and E Musk insist on calling themselves 'self-made' billionaires.
Like daddy's real estate holdings and family's gem mines in South Africa had nothing to do with it.

[StringJunky]

16 hours ago, MigL said:

Probably why people like D Trump and E Musk insist on calling themselves 'self-made' billionaires.
Like daddy's real estate holdings and family's gem mines in South Africa had nothing to do with it.

They were just given money and they did the rest.

[TheVat]

HELLO!   I AM THE SECOND AMENDMENT.  I CAN'T HELP NOTICING YOU ARE A DEEPLY SICK AND ANGRY EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD.  PLEASE LET ME PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME GUNS AND RIFLES JUST IN CASE YOU GET THE URGE TO JOIN A WELL ORDERED MILITIA AND FEND OFF REDCOATS!  FEEL FREE TO PRACTICE ON BLACK GROCERY SHOPPERS OR SCHOOLCHILDREN OR WHATEVER MOVING TARGETS ARE HANDY!  BECAUSE I AM ALL ABOUT FREEDOM! 

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-b4e4648ed0ae454897d540e787d092b2

 

Jesus fucking Christ.

(the second amendment personified riff is mine, so if you don't like it, blame me)

[CharonY]

And the CDC is not allowed to study or track gun violence. I always found that defenders of the second amendment use arguments of fear to justify having guns on coffee tables within easy reach (including for toddlers and dogs). In fact, I found it astonishing how fearful in general the US population seems to be and how violent the response to perceived threats are, compared to many other countries (including Canada)

 

When radical religious fanatics killed folks, trillions of dollars were spent to curb their influence (whether successful or not). But kids getting randomly murdered is apparently just the price folks have to pay (for what?).

[MigL]

TThis is becoming sad, shameful and ridiculous.
I guess Americans have decided they would rather protect their 2nd Amendment rights than their kid's lives.

[StringJunky]

It's  happened 27 times in US schools this year. It seems like wasted energy to feel affected by it anymore. Fuck the GOP, NRA and the 2nd.

Edited May 25, 2022 by StringJunky

[beecee]

6 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

It's  happened 27 times in US schools this year. It seems like wasted energy to feel affected by it anymore. Fuck the GOP, NRA and the 2nd.

So all it should take is a majority of American's to get up off their fat arses, (don't be too concerned, plenty of Aussies have fat arses too) and their elected representitives to do something concrete and take the bit between the teeth.

[StringJunky]

5 minutes ago, beecee said:

So all it should take is a majority of American's to get up off their fat arses, (don't be too concerned, plenty of Aussies have fat arses too) and their elected representitives to do something concrete and take the bit between the teeth.

There isn't enough people with them... apparently. The Constitution is equivalent to the tablet of the ten commandments. It belongs in a museum as a curiosity.

[TheVat]

Unfortunate that 25-30% of Americans have completely hijacked the machinery of politics and jurisprudence so they can stand vigilant against the imaginary marauders.  Charon is right about the paranoia and hyperreactivity. My daughter teaches elementary and middle school and I'm just fed up with this shit.  Y'all got plus ones - consider that my group hug.

[zapatos]

11 minutes ago, beecee said:

So all it should take is a majority of American's to get up off their fat arses, (don't be too concerned, plenty of Aussies have fat arses too) and their elected representitives to do something concrete and take the bit between the teeth.

Unfortunately it takes more than a majority.

Quote

A year after Sandy Hook, Sens. Joe Manchin a West Virginia Democrat, and Patrick J. Toomey, a Pennsylvania Republican, negotiated a bipartisan proposal to expand the nation’s background check system. But as the measure was close to being brought to the Senate floor for a vote, it became clear it would not get enough votes to clear a 60-vote filibuster hurdle.

Last year, the House passed two bills to expand background checks on firearms purchases. One bill would have closed a loophole for private and online sales. The other would have extended the background check review period. Both languished in the 50-50 Senate, where Democrats need at least 10 Republican votes to overcome objections from a filibuster.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-school-district-locked-down-173651467.html

[TheVat]

And any Constitutional amendment takes an even larger majority, of two thirds, in both Houses.  Might as well wait for a unicorn sighting on the Capitol steps.

[Peterkin]

37 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

The Constitution is equivalent to the tablet of the ten commandments. It belongs in a museum as a curiosity.

It's already in one, under glass. And this gun crazy bullshit is not about the second amendment, any more than the anti-abortion bullshit is about the sixth commandment. Sacred laws are nothing more than convenient nails to hang the soiled garments of special interests - convenient, even if you have to snip one in half to make it so. (I don't see any well-regulated militias coming out of the gun lobby.)  

[StringJunky]

3 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

It's already in one, under glass. And this gun crazy bullshit is not about the second amendment, any more than the anti-abortion bullshit is about the sixth commandment. Sacred laws are nothing more than convenient nails to hang the soiled garments of special interests - convenient, even if you have to snip one in half to make it so. (I don't see any well-regulated militias coming out of the gun lobby.)  

But it's still being used in complete form, not like the UK's Magna Carta, which only has three still active.

Quote

Only three of the 63 clauses in the Magna Carta are still in law. One defends the freedom and rights of the English Church, another relates to the privileges enjoyed by the City of London and the third - the most famous - is generally held to have etablished the right to trial by jury.

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

I say this very tongue in cheek and it might be out of place during yet another tragic event, but it might be time to pry the guns from their cold dead hands. 

[Peterkin]

14 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

But it's still being used in complete form, not like the UK's Magna Carta, which only has three still active.

Depends on what you mean by 'complete form'. They haven't torn out any pages, but they do select bits - even if it means truncating a sentence (A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.) while ignoring other bits, to argue their particular case. And it's a young document, with lots of amendments added over time, while Magna Carta afaik hasn't been changed since the thirteenth century. And the commandments, also being cherry-picked and folded, spindled and mutilated to fit new requirements, haven't changed for even longer.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Peterkin

[iNow]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

TThis is becoming sad, shameful and ridiculous.
I guess Americans have decided they would rather protect their 2nd Amendment rights than their kid's lives.

Don’t lump us all together

2 hours ago, beecee said:

So all it should take is a majority of American's to get up off their fat arses, (don't be too concerned, plenty of Aussies have fat arses too) and their elected representitives to do something concrete and take the bit between the teeth.

Our elected officials tend to be the ones who lost the popular vote. 

And even when they won, they operate in a system where a tiny minority can prevent the sizable majority from making changes. 

In some cases, that’s helpful. In these cases, it’s just sad. 

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

And any Constitutional amendment takes an even larger majority, of two thirds, in both Houses.  Might as well wait for a unicorn sighting on the Capitol steps.

I’m fairly sure those billion dollar startups are already there… lobbying. 

[Peterkin]

The entire process and all the mechanisms of the electoral system have been so severely damaged by many years of systematic tampering that only a comprehensive overhaul, which would have to include federal overriding of state-controlled voting rules and practices - could give anything like a majority of Americans the right to choose their representatives. Until that happens - brought about, no doubt, by a beautiful warrior princess riding a unicorn - every hundred hand-written letters to a member of Congress demanding gun control legislation is nullified by one anonymous death-threat on a social media platform.    

And the US in not unique in having a severely compromised democratic process.

[beecee]

7 hours ago, iNow said:

Our elected officials tend to be the ones who lost the popular vote. 

 

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

There isn't enough people with them... apparently. The Constitution is equivalent to the tablet of the ten commandments. It belongs in a museum as a curiosity.

I have a suggestion. Grab all the senators that are blocking gun reform, along with the hierarchy of the NRA, grab Trump along with them, and the clowns that invaded your white house, and lock then in the morgue with the bodies of the 19 children and teachers killed by the lunatic that was able to get his hands on an assault weapon of that kind and calibre.

As your President said...You ( presumably referring to the senators and Americans in general) need to grow a back bone.

[Phi for All]

3 hours ago, beecee said:

I have a suggestion. Grab all the senators that are blocking gun reform, along with the hierarchy of the NRA, grab Trump along with them, and the clowns that invaded your white house, and lock then in the morgue with the bodies of the 19 children and teachers killed by the lunatic that was able to get his hands on an assault weapon of that kind and calibre.

As your President said...You ( presumably referring to the senators and Americans in general) need to grow a back bone.

Senator Ted Cruz and Governor Greg Abbott of Texas will be attending the NRA convention this weekend in Houston, where Cruz is a keynote speaker, and they don't care much about the ethics or the optics. They made it clear it was a shame what happened, and now want to move on to a great convention.

[TheVat]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-gosar-texas-shooter_n_628db1f5e4b0edd2d01c8ef7

We don't just let mentally ill people have guns, we also elect them to the United States Congress.  

More disappointing was the Oscar-winning actor Matthew McConaughey, who is a native of that town (Uvalde, TX), who tweeted some vague philosophizing but never said one word about gun control.

 

[LazyLemonLucas]

18 hours ago, StringJunky said:

There isn't enough people with them... apparently. The Constitution is equivalent to the tablet of the ten commandments. It belongs in a museum as a curiosity.

I don't remember the ten comamndments having amendments. 

[Phi for All]

37 minutes ago, LazyLemonLucas said:

I don't remember the ten comamndments having amendments. 

In fact, the first three violate the First Amendment, four and five are unenforceable, six, eight and nine are enforced haphazardly, and without ten, we wouldn't have capitalism.

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, LazyLemonLucas said:

I don't remember the ten comamndments having amendments. 

Unless you count the 27 chapters of Leviticus. https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Leviticus-Chapter-1/

[TheVat]

Am mostly here because this is not the transgender athlete thread.  Phew.  But also wanted to share this....

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2022/5/25/2100317/-Guns-will-be-banned-for-Trump-s-upcoming-speech-at-NRA-convention

 

 

[Phi for All]

Not sure if anyone brought this up before, but the Alliance for Gun Responsibility points out that "gun control" is how the right wing have framed this whole issue, and humans hate being controlled. "Control" becomes "confiscation", and even law-abiding citizens object. Reframing this issue as "gun responsibility" will force politicians into a clearer stance. I don't think they'd get elected if they objected to responsible gun use.