Arming Teachers

[StringJunky]

6 hours ago, MigL said:

I can't believe that D Trump's idiotic proposal has been discussed for four pages.
Only someone like the current president would think that, in a country where the problem is too many guns and their easy accessibility, the solution is MORE guns.

Schools need to be gun-free zones.
Guns and kids don't mix.
Kids need to be taught their problems cannot be solved with violence.
Nor are their problems so great these days, as to cause all the teenage angst.

"We've got a fire"

"Uh... put some petrol on it"

[John Cuthber]

9 hours ago, MigL said:

I can't believe that D Trump's idiotic proposal has been discussed for four pages.
Only someone like the current president would think that, in a country where the problem is too many guns and their easy accessibility, the solution is MORE guns.

Schools need to be gun-free zones.
Guns and kids don't mix.
Kids need to be taught their problems cannot be solved with violence.
Nor are their problems so great these days, as to cause all the teenage angst.

I understand that the White House is a gun-free zone.

Surely what's good enough for the president  should be good enough for  school kids.

 

[dimreepr]

[Ten oz]

11 hours ago, MigL said:

Kids need to be taught their problems cannot be solved with violence.

+1, this is something lacking greatly in U.S. society for some time and only made worse in our current political environment. From threatening to totally destroy North Korea to telling Police Officers not to be too nice we (U.S.) are lead by those who think violence is a good solution. It isn't just Trump either. We have been watching people like George Zimmerman walk free or even treated like heros from before Trump. In the early days of the Iraq war "Shock and Awe" was used by the Bush administration to describe our military strategy. In the U.S. we have a big stick obsession. Millions in the U.S. think that not only is a good guy with a gun shooting a bad guy with a gun a reasonable solution but it's the preferred solution. We need to teach kids violence doesn't solve problems but aren't going to be able to long as us adults absolutely believe it violence totally does. 

[dimreepr]

In the land of the superheroes, revenge is the default strategy and the powerful always use violence.

[Raider5678]

12 hours ago, MigL said:

I can't believe that D Trump's idiotic proposal has been discussed for four pages.

 

Fear not!

Very little discussion is actually taking place.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

Fear not!

Very little discussion is actually taking place.

Just because it's not going your way.

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

That reminds me of Philando Castile, a black school worker who got shot in his own car while informing the police that he had a licensed gun in his car.

[dimreepr]

2 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Fear not!

Very little discussion is actually taking place.

Maybe but fear not very little understanding is taking place...

[iNow]

37 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Maybe but fear not very little understanding is taking place...

I don't get it

[Raider5678]

3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Just because it's not going your way.

Because these are discussions:

10 hours ago, StringJunky said:

"We've got a fire"

"Uh... put some petrol on it"

 

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

In the land of the superheroes, revenge is the default strategy and the powerful always use violence.

 

6 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 

[StringJunky]

2 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Because these are discussions:

Because the Republican solution inspires those comments from us. There's no arguing with stupid.

[Airbrush]

Does anyone know if the shooter was wearing body armor? 

The security guard who stayed outside probably heard the sound of an assault rifle with a muzzle velocity 3 times his 9mm pistol.  What teacher, let alone a security guard, is going to attack a shooter with an assault rifle, using a pistol?

[John Cuthber]

On 2/24/2018 at 12:06 PM, John Cuthber said:

A 4 year old child is already learning a new word every 40 minutes or so, how to ride a scooter, how to tell the difference between a postman and a policeman, that there are many languages in the world, and, in some cases they are learning a second language.
Anyone who  underestimates the ability of a child to learn unexpected  things just isn't paying attention.
However, I take our point.

It's unlikely that a 4 year old would manage what you described

But one thing's for sure.
She will acquire the ability to get the gun before she has the full understanding of the consequences of what it does.

So, do you plan to get rid of the guns by the time she's 5, or 8, or 10 or when?

 

On 2/24/2018 at 12:06 PM, John Cuthber said:

A 4 year old child is already learning a new word every 40 minutes or so, how to ride a scooter, how to tell the difference between a postman and a policeman, that there are many languages in the world, and, in some cases they are learning a second language.
Anyone who  underestimates the ability of a child to learn unexpected  things just isn't paying attention.
However, I take our point.

It's unlikely that a 4 year old would manage what you described

Butone thing's for sure.
She will acquire the ability to get the gun before she has the full understanding of the consequences of what it does.

So, do you plan to get rid of the guns by the time she's 5, or 8, or 10 or when?

I'm still waiting for a reply to this...

[Strange]

Well, at least one school is taking action by banning .... backpacks. /facepalm

http://6abc.com/education/high-school-banning-backpacks-in-effort-to-make-school-safer/3133684/

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Because the Republican solution inspires those comments from us. There's no arguing with stupid.

Exactly, this is not a discussion.

 

[Phi for All]

5 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Fear not!

Very little discussion is actually taking place.

What seems to be happening is that when specific criticism is leveled about a GOP policy, in this case it's arming teachers, you object on the grounds that it's attacking Republicans in general, which is unproductive. If you, personally, had a specific beef about a piece of legislation being suggested by an opposition representative, and had reasoned arguments why it was bad, would you want people accusing you of partisan rhetoric? Shouldn't we all be able to say it's a bad idea to arm teachers, even when some of us think it's bad to use more guns to solve a gun problem, and others think it's bad for more specific reasons?

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

Because these are discussions:

No, they're arguments against arming teachers. Very, very basic ones. 

I especially don't see why it's unreasonable to point out that a black teacher with a gun at a school shooting is a couple of orders of magnitude more at risk of being killed than anybody else within a mile. 

[iNow]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm still waiting for a reply to this...

From me? If so, I currently have no plans to dispose of them, and also feel that (if that the case) that you’re missing the boat a bit by focusing on me and my marginal situation instead of the bulk of the issue. 

[Arete]

4 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm still waiting for a reply to this...

 I chose not to continue the discussion, as it was going astray from the topic of the thread and becoming obtuse, but OK. 

1) When a child can open the kitchen drawers and cupboards, do you throw out the household bleach and kitchen knives? Do you shut off the hot water when they can turn the bath taps? Demolish upstairs when they can climb over the baby gate? 

Or do you teach them that numerous household items are dangerous and not appropriate to play with? 

2) I disagree that we should expect children to inevitably crack safes. The whole point of a decent quality safe is that an adult can't access it without explicit instructions on how to open it. 

[Sensei]

11 hours ago, CharonY said:

That reminds me of Philando Castile, a black school worker who got shot in his own car while informing the police that he had a licensed gun in his car.

To be honest, in Europe, it would not happen, as police officers here are learned to shoot at legs first.. (if there would be even reasons to do it in the first place!)

In US, police officers are like in some permanent madness state.. ("shoot first, then ask for ID!")

(Current) US government does not help with anti-immigrant sentences..

There is very easy to get rid of such unbelievably ridiculous cases as Philando Castile. Simply give every single US police officer camera which must record everything what they do all day long...

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Sensei

[Ten oz]

https://injury.research.chop.edu/violence-prevention-initiative/types-violence-involving-youth/gun-violence/gun-violence-facts-and#.WpQImGrwbIU

 

There are other interested stats on the link. The ones that stood out to me as being useful to this discussion are that 1 out of 3 kids live in a home with guns and that over 13,000 kids are injured by guns each year. The over whelming majority of kids know where the guns in there homes are kept despite their parents belief to the contrary (related to a point John Cuthber made). Additionally the rate of mass shootings is increasing. It is a growing problem.

With about 30% of total students living in a home with a gun that means only about 15% of male students live in a home with a gun considering only about half of all students are male. That is a much lower number needles in a haystack of guns than CharonY and iNow have implied. Of that 15% not every student has access to the gun, worse case is 80%. So the number of male students at a school with access to a gun at home is around only 1 out 9 or 10 students. That is not such an overwhelming portion of students that it is not worth teachers or administrators bothering with who they are. Just on two risk factors alone (accessible gun in the home & gender) the number is down to nearly 1 in 10 students. For Colleges the numbers would be even lower considering females make up a larger percentage of students. with 13,000 kids injured per year and a growing mass shooting rate at some point I believe we (society) should start to identify risk factors .

Worst case scenario of teachers asking students and parents about guns in homes is that more parents lock of their guns and the number of students with access to guns greatly diminishes. 

 

 

 

• 1.7 million children live with unlocked, loaded guns - 1 out of 3 homes with kids have guns.
• In 2014, 2,549 children (age 0 to 19 years) died by gunshot and an additional 13,576 were injured.
• More than 75 percent of first and second graders know where their parents keep their firearms and 36 percent admitted handling the weapons, contradicting their parents’ reports.
• More than 80 percent of guns used by youth in suicide attempts were kept in the home of the victim, a relative, or a friend.
• In a November 2017 review of mass shootings in the U.S., 95 mass shootings have occurred since 1982, from which approximately 76 semi-automatic handguns and 85 assault weapons and weapons with high magazine capacity were recovered.
• Gun owners in a household (predominantly men) are more likely to report that their gun is stored unlocked and loaded, compared to the non-owners (predominantly women) in those households. This argues for better education of household members regarding safe storage in homes with children.
• Researchers from Harvard School of Public Health demonstrated that from 1982 to 2011, mass shootings occurred every 200 days on average. Since late 2011, they found, mass shootings have occurred at triple that rate—every 64 days on average.
   

[dimreepr]

22 hours ago, iNow said:

I don't get it

A throw-away line designed for Raider, it means without understanding, all discussions are just gainsaying.

 

20 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Because these are discussions:

 

 

On 25/02/2018 at 11:51 AM, dimreepr said:

 

On 25/02/2018 at 12:58 PM, dimreepr said:

In the land of the superheroes, revenge is the default strategy and the powerful always use violence.

And I've discussed, if you have a problem understanding my posts, just ask...

Edited February 26, 2018 by dimreepr

[iNow]

40 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

A throw-away line designed for Raider, it means without understanding, all discussions are just gainsaying.

I had a feeling that particular joke wasn't going to properly land.

 

23 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Maybe but fear not very little understanding is taking place...

 

22 hours ago, iNow said:

I don't get it

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by iNow

[dimreepr]

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

I had a feeling that particular joke wasn't going to properly land.

 

Ah well, we throw them out, sometimes the landing hurts and sometimes it's synchronous. 

[koti]

29 minutes ago, iNow said:

I had a feeling that particular joke wasn't going to properly land.

 

 

 

Landed just fine with me.