John Cuthber Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Arete said: I doubt anyone will miss the fact that your position is that "every gun is an assault weapon capable of killing an entire classroom of children". I seem to have missed that my position is what you say it is. 6 hours ago, Arete said: Just to confirm - your position is that... Nope. You don't seem to understand that strawmanning doesn't work on science sites. Since I never put forward the position you are ascribing to me, people are going to recognise that one of us is telling the truth... What I have pointed out is that your tacit claim- that your guns can't kill people- is absurd.
MigL Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 Give it a rest guys... This is the type of discussion that has been going on for years, and all its done is make the issue more polarized, and the situation worse. The only way to get to a solution is to work together ( Americans anyway, not you John ). No one says you have to give up your guns Arete, but do some of your fellow citizens need so many, and of such power? Should there not be better controls over who has access to them ? I think we all realize that something needs to be done. Stop the endless debates and contact your government and DEMAND that, if they want to be re-elected, they do something.
StringJunky Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, MigL said: Give it a rest guys... This is the type of discussion that has been going on for years, and all its done is make the issue more polarized, and the situation worse. The only way to get to a solution is to work together ( Americans anyway, not you John ). No one says you have to give up your guns Arete, but do some of your fellow citizens need so many, and of such power? Should there not be better controls over who has access to them ? I think we all realize that something needs to be done. Stop the endless debates and contact your government and DEMAND that, if they want to be re-elected, they do something. It'll be up to the kids to try and change it.
Ten oz Posted March 17, 2018 Author Posted March 17, 2018 8 hours ago, StringJunky said: It'll be up to the kids to try and change it. Some groups of people simply refuse to accept change regardless of public support or the laws. Slavery ended 150yrs ago, segregation 50yrs ago, and we still have a major problem with racism. Regardless of several previous tax cuts failing to improve economic conditions and exploding debt every election at every level continues to feature those who want more tax cuts. Some issues simply won't go away. Prostitution is illegal and yet the oldest profession. It is nice to day dream about the children being the future but the reality is most children grow up and emulate their parents. I think the U.S. will be dealing with this issue in the same divisive terms we are now for at least the rest of my life and several decades beyond. Pro gun advocates have too successfully made gun ownership a matter of culture and belief. Asking one to change their views on the second amendment is like asking one to change their views on god. The very proposal can be offensive.
Strange Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 8 hours ago, StringJunky said: It'll be up to the kids to try and change it. And the students from MSD(*) school have mounted an amazing campaign. This seems to be partly because they are at a really good school with really classes on media, debating and civics (they were in the middle of a project on the 2nd Amendment when the attack happened). They have used social media and videos really well to mobilise people to demonstrate and register to vote. It looks like this time the people's representatives may not be able to get away with muttering "thoughts and prayers" while pocketing bribes campaign funds from the NRA and hoping the news story moves on... (*) I had never heard of Marjorie Stoneman Douglas before this attack. She sounds like an amazing role model for these students.
Ten oz Posted March 20, 2018 Author Posted March 20, 2018 A student pulled out a gun and shot two other students at a high school in southeast Maryland Tuesday morning before the shooter was fatally wounded, the St. Mary’s County sheriff says. The student entered Great Mills High School in Great Mills at the beginning of the school day and shot a female student with a handgun in a hallway, Sheriff Tim Cameron told News4. A male student also was hit by a bullet. The 16-year-old female student was stabilized and transferred to UM Prince George's Hospital Center, and the 14-year-old male victim is in good condition, according to the MedStar St. Mary's Hospital The shooter, a male, has died, the sheriff said. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shooting-Investigation-Underway-at-St-Marys-Co-High-School-477374093.html
tmx3 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 If they arm teachers, we’re going to hear about it on the news one day of this teacher who was “mentally ill” and attacked children. It’s a horrible idea. And I hate to emphasize this but it’s starting to seem more and more like a govt run conspiracy to dismantle the public. If you don’t believe me, just check Trump. What rules hasn’t he broken? And yet he’s still in office. He should have long since been impeached, but he’s not. And I hope for goodness’ sake there’s no one out there thinking Trump has anyone’s best interest at heart except his own. He’d run to take up the opportunity of dismantling the people and becoming a tyrant. They want YOU to choose to let go of your own arms. And to be honest for a long time I supported gun control, but the conniving ways of Trump and the government have proved that this issue could be an insider thing. I don’t know what the question was, I got too passionate about this. It’s just downright upsetting!!!
StringJunky Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, tmx3 said: If they arm teachers, we’re going to hear about it on the news one day of this teacher who was “mentally ill” and attacked children. It’s a horrible idea. And I hate to emphasize this but it’s starting to seem more and more like a govt run conspiracy to dismantle the public. If you don’t believe me, just check Trump. What rules hasn’t he broken? And yet he’s still in office. He should have long since been impeached, but he’s not. And I hope for goodness’ sake there’s no one out there thinking Trump has anyone’s best interest at heart except his own. He’d run to take up the opportunity of dismantling the people and becoming a tyrant. They want YOU to choose to let go of your own arms. And to be honest for a long time I supported gun control, but the conniving ways of Trump and the government have proved that this issue could be an insider thing. I don’t know what the question was, I got too passionate about this. It’s just downright upsetting!!! Trump is pro-whatever-gets-him-where-he wants-to-be, so I wouldn't think for a second he's passionately committed either way. As you note, arming teachers is jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.... a mental illness or episode can strike anyone at any time.
tmx3 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, StringJunky said: Trump is pro-whatever-gets-him-where-he wants-to-be, so I wouldn't think for a second he's passionately committed either way. As you note, arming teachers is jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.... a mental illness or episode can strike anyone at any time. Exactly! I just don’t understand how the thought of arming teachers was seriously considered—even if it was momentarily so—as a reasonable solution to school shootings... How? I just don’t get it.
StringJunky Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, tmx3 said: Exactly! I just don’t understand how the thought of arming teachers was seriously considered—even if it was momentarily so—as a reasonable solution to school shootings... How? I just don’t get it. You have to look into the motives of the pro-gun lobby. To them, the problem is that there are bad people out there and the solution is to throw more guns at the problem. If you throw more guns at the problem, they get more money from the arms makers who finance them. More guns = more money. Less guns = less money and power. 1
Ten oz Posted April 1, 2018 Author Posted April 1, 2018 12 hours ago, tmx3 said: Exactly! I just don’t understand how the thought of arming teachers was seriously considered—even if it was momentarily so—as a reasonable solution to school shootings... How? I just don’t get it. Talk of arming Teachers is just a way shift the location of common ground. If left side calls for gun control and the right side just argues all is fine as is common ground is somewhere between. In that scenario some small concessions would have to be made by both sides to reach common ground. Instead the right comes up will there own solutions calling for more guns. That pushes common ground ground to where we already are, no concessions made by them, rinse and repeat.
Ten oz Posted April 12, 2018 Author Posted April 12, 2018 Sean Simpson, a teacher at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, has spoken in favor of gun control efforts and said he might be open to the idea of carrying a gun in class. Now, he's been arrested after leaving his Glock 9 mm pistol in a bathroom over the weekend. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/12/601871820/stoneman-douglas-teacher-is-arrested-after-leaving-gun-in-bathroom-stall 1
Raider5678 Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 4:40 PM, Ten oz said: Sean Simpson, a teacher at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, has spoken in favor of gun control efforts and said he might be open to the idea of carrying a gun in class. Now, he's been arrested after leaving his Glock 9 mm pistol in a bathroom over the weekend. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/12/601871820/stoneman-douglas-teacher-is-arrested-after-leaving-gun-in-bathroom-stall "I know there are some of us that are willing to take the training if it was offered and probably be another line of defence. But again, that is a complicated subject and I'm not sure if it's the answer. I think it's easier to get these types of weapons out of the hands of people that aren't meant to do anything but kill. They're not meant for hunting." - Sean Simpson
dimreepr Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, Raider5678 said: "I know there are some of us that are willing to take the training if it was offered and probably be another line of defence. But again, that is a complicated subject and I'm not sure if it's the answer. I think it's easier to get these types of weapons out of the hands of people that aren't meant to do anything but kill. They're not meant for hunting." - Sean Simpson 1 What's your point?
Raider5678 Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, dimreepr said: What's your point? The headline was misleading. It told the truth, yes, but it was misleading. So I provided a statement that allows people who see that link to have a quote that lets them realize it is misleading.
dimreepr Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Raider5678 said: The headline was misleading. It told the truth, yes, but it was misleading. So I provided a statement that allows people who see that link to have a quote that lets them realize it is misleading. Leave a gun for someone else to kill or lose your shit and kill, the result is the same. Edited April 18, 2018 by dimreepr
Raider5678 Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 45 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Leave a gun for someone else to kill or lose your shit and kill, the result is the same. Your point? The headline was clearly trying to mislead people.
dimreepr Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Raider5678 said: Your point? The headline was clearly trying to mislead people. Does it matter?
Raider5678 Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Does it matter? Yes. It does. That's a major problem when headlines are there to get people going, and not to tell the truth. Why do you think there's this massive "fake news" campaign? Because they're telling the truth?
dimreepr Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Raider5678 said: Yes. It does. That's a major problem when headlines are there to get people going, and not to tell the truth. Why do you think there's this massive "fake news" campaign? Because they're telling the truth? You have admitted it tells the truth, so why do you want to spin it? 1
swansont Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, Raider5678 said: The headline was clearly trying to mislead people. What was misleading about it? Is he not a teacher at MSD? Did he not leave his gun in a bathroom? Did he not get arrested? 2
Raider5678 Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 46 minutes ago, swansont said: What was misleading about it? Is he not a teacher at MSD? Did he not leave his gun in a bathroom? Did he not get arrested? Because it misleads people into thinking it was done at the school. I know you'll immediately reply that I'm wrong, it didn't make you think that, that it was definitely not ambiguous or vague at all, that it's a perfect article, it wasn't intended to be "shocking" or "click-bait" and that they simply wanted to tell a story to people. However, I am tired of media headlines being click-bait and misleading. So I will call it out.
dimreepr Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Raider5678 said: Because it misleads people into thinking it was done at the school. I know you'll immediately reply that I'm wrong, it didn't make you think that, that it was definitely not ambiguous or vague at all, that it's a perfect article, it wasn't intended to be "shocking" or "click-bait" and that they simply wanted to tell a story to people. However, I am tired of media headlines being click-bait and misleading. So I will call it out. Be careful about what one fights for, lest you be called out.
Raider5678 Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Be careful about what one fights for, lest you be called out. I'll fight for what I believe in and what I hold true to me, not what won't get me called out.
dimreepr Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Raider5678 said: I'll fight for what I believe in and what I hold true to me, not what won't get me called out. Do you need a gun for that?
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