Vladimir Putin wins Russian election with about 77% of vote

[Raider5678]

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

How come they didn't just shoot him and move on?

 

Fair enough. They didn't just shoot him and move on. They arrested him, dragged him away, and then executed him by firing squad. 

Along with three-hundred other people, totaling an estimated seven-thousand wounded as well.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989#Official_figures

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Raider5678

[dimreepr]

8 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Fair enough. They didn't just shoot him and move on. They arrested him, dragged him away, and then executed him by firing squad. 

Along with three-hundred other people, totaling an estimated seven-thousand wounded as well.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989#Official_figures

 

Like I said a strawman, when did I say the win is instant? 

Besides, if you throw a lit bottle of petrol at them, they have an excuse but if you stand unarmed against them, they have a problem.

Edited March 20, 2018 by dimreepr

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Like I said a strawman, when did I say the win is instant? 

 

No where.

You said eventually.

I asked how long eventually is.

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Besides, if you throw a lit bottle of petrol at them, they have an excuse but if you stand unarmed against them, they have a problem.

 

And when the whole country is throwing lit bottles of petrol at them with hit and run, they have a bigger problem.

With a single person, they do what they have historically done before.

Shoot them.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

No where.

You said eventually.

I asked how long eventually is.

Again "does it matter?"

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Again "does it matter?"

Yes.

Because "eventually" might as well be "never"

[dimreepr]

If you can't win using a spud-gun, you need a new strategy.

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

If you can't win using a spud-gun, you need a new strategy.

That makes no sense.

 

I'm basically saying if standing in front of a tank only get's you killed, why do it?

If all you do is protest and die because of it, but it never changes anything, why do it?

 

Are you so committed to peace to think that you should let an oppressive government continue killing it's citizens, using them as slaves, starving them while they eat like kings, oppressing them, and making you live in fear 100% of the time?

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

If only they had the second amendment to protect their right to carry firearms and use them against an oppressive government

That worked out well for your southern states, didn't it.

[Raider5678]

Just now, Strange said:

That worked out well for your southern states, didn't it.

My southern states?

You realize they're still part of the country right?

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Yes.

Because "eventually" might as well be "never"

Eventually is never, never.

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

Eventually is never, never.

Eventually in the terms of a human life, might as well be never.

If 20 generations live under an oppressive government, it might as well be never to the 19 generations of them who lived and died under the regime. 

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Are you so committed to peace to think that you should let an oppressive government continue killing it's citizens, using them as slaves, starving them while they eat like kings, oppressing them, and making you live in fear 100% of the time?

 

Being killed by an oppressive government is seldom peaceful.

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

Being killed by an oppressive government is seldom peaceful.

Letting them kill you is seldom peaceful either.

 

[iNow]

Wow. This is fun. [\sarcasm]

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

Eventually in the terms of a human life, might as well be never.

If 20 generations live under an oppressive government, it might as well be never to the 19 generations of them who lived and died under the regime. 

Tell that to slaves or women or etc...

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

Tell that to slaves or women or etc...

How does that support your position at all?

 

[dimreepr]

Just now, Raider5678 said:

How does that support your position at all?

 

Wow, really? 

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

Wow, really? 

Alright.

Tell women who are raped by corrupt government officials, that they shouldn't fight back.

Tell children who are sold as sex slaves by corrupt government officials, that they should just wait.

Tell men who are sent to slave labor camps by corrupt government officials, that eventually it'll be better, and that it doesn't matter how long it tales.

Tell them that their suffering doesn't matter, as long as you're peaceful.

[Strange]

10 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

My southern states?

You realize they're still part of the country right?

They didn't overthrow the "repressive government", though. Just ended up getting lots of people killed. Civil war is rarely a good idea. 

[Raider5678]

Just now, Strange said:

They didn't overthrow the "repressive government", though. Just ended up getting lots of people killed. Civil war is rarely a good idea. 

You don't seem to know your history very well.

That was one side of an issue vs another.

Not people against the government.

Slave states vs non slave states.

Not population vs government.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

Alright.

Tell women who are raped by corrupt government officials, that they shouldn't fight back.

Tell children who are sold as sex slaves by corrupt government officials, that they should just wait.

Tell men who are sent to slave labor camps by corrupt government officials, that eventually it'll be better, and that it doesn't matter how long it tales.

Tell them that their suffering doesn't matter, as long as you're peaceful.

WTF??? May I suggest you take a step back and THINK about what you're saying, I know you're young and believe what you've been told but just remember, Jesus didn't have a gun. 

[Silvestru]

Raider5678, dimreepr, guys... come on.  Really?

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

You don't seem to know your history very well.

I will admit, I don't know your history very well.

But the way (some) Americans alternately praise democracy and (laughably) claim to be the most democratic country in the world but also insist (unlike any other democtratic country) that they need weapons to defend themselves against government is .... well, bizarre.

(And that wasn't the purpose of the 2nd amendment anyway. But that has been done to death in its own thread, so...)

Quote

That was one side of an issue vs another.

Not people against the government.

Slave states vs non slave states.

Not population vs government.

Not much difference. One set of people (the slave owners in the slave states) thought that the federal government and the governments of the other states were oppressive and wanted to remove their (non-existent) right to own slaves.

If the US ever got a truly repressive government (luckily Trump is too vain and stupid to achieve it) and people tried to rise up against it then they would be crushed like any other rebellion (by the largest army on Earth). 

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

WTF??? May I suggest you take a step back and THINK about what you're saying, I know you're young and believe what you've been told but just remember, Jesus didn't have a gun. 

We're talking about oppressive governments correct? And whether peaceful means are more effective than violent ones.

 

Russia, North Korea, Saudia Arabia, and China, are the first 4 oppressive governments that come to mind.

Women being raped, children being sold, men forced to work in labor camps, are all common stories.

 

I said that ultimately the oppressive government doesn't just roll over because people protest. Typically, protests are illegal(as in all 4 countries) and result in death.

And, they very rarely do anything.

 

There have been 6 successful revolutions against corrupt governments in the last 30 years(1990 onward). 1 was peaceful because other countries threatened to get involved if the government didn't step down, 5 were not.

 

Your position, correct me if I'm wrong, is be willing to die through protests and become a martyr. 

 

 

If the argument is about efficiency and maximum benefit, a revolution is more effective then a bunch of protests in a country that is not a democracy. 

[Ten oz]

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

There's always more people than oligarchs and oligarchs would rather kill for their beliefs than die for them.

It is more complicated than that. The wealthy in any country have lots of influence. They are often the ones that own the corporations and local businesses everyone works for. So it isn't simply as disposing ones political leaders but often includes being at odds with your employer, co-workers, and other leaders in your community. People who can kill average peoples career and or hurt the economies of local communities.