Vladimir Putin wins Russian election with about 77% of vote

[Raider5678]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

I will admit, I don't know your history very well.

But the way (some) Americans alternately praise democracy and (laughably) claim to be the most democratic country in the world but also insist (unlike any other democtratic country) that they need weapons to defend themselves against government is .... well, bizarre.

2

The majority of that is they worry the government will become a dictatorship.

Which, historically, is not far-fetched. Rome was a democracy that eventually fell to becoming an empire ruled by an emperor. 

Russia was a democracy, that very quickly became a fake one.

North Korea WAS a democracy, but that's laughable now.

 

Although I do get your point and I agree with you, I do understand the concept of the other side.

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

Not much difference. One set of people (the slave owners in the slave states) thought that the federal government and the governments of the other states were oppressive and wanted to remove their (non-existent) right to own slaves.

If the US ever got a truly repressive government (luckily Trump is too vain and stupid to achieve it) and people tried to rise up against it then they would be crushed like any other rebellion (by the largest army on Earth). 

 

There is a large difference IMO.

That was the government splitting, as well as the population.

It wasn't the government splitting from the population.

 

It's hard to argue there isn't a difference there.

[dimreepr]

4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

It is more complicated than that. The wealthy in any country have lots of influence. They are often the ones that own the corporations and local businesses everyone works for. So it isn't simply as disposing ones political leaders but often includes being at odds with your employer, co-workers, and other leaders in your community. People who can kill average peoples career and or hurt the economies of local communities. 

I can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread, Jesus, Gandhi, Mandela all with AK's???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

History people, it's all there...

[Raider5678]

8 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread, Jesus, Gandhi, Mandela all with AK's???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

History people, it's all there...

Most of the British Colonies violently overthrew their oppressors.

Perhaps they should have protested and been martyrs instead?

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Most of the British Colonies violently overthrew their oppressors.

Perhaps they should have protested and been martyrs instead?

Cognitive dissonance (the force) is strong with you, but which side will you choose? The gun or Jesus (light or dark)?

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Cognitive dissonance (the force) is strong with you, but which side will you choose? The gun or Jesus (light or dark)?

Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't believe in god.

[dimreepr]

Just now, Raider5678 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't believe in god.

Nope, but I believe in Jesus.

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Nope, but I believe in Jesus.

Luke 22:36

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

Luke 22:36

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Jesus Christ, do you still not get it?

[Ten oz]

25 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread, Jesus, Gandhi, Mandela all with AK's???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

History people, it's all there...

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was merely pointing out that it will take personal sacrifice. As for what is going on in this thread I had only read up to the point where I quoted you. I now realize you are caught up in something ugly. I recommend simply not feeding trolls. 

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Jesus Christ, do you still not get it?

No. I don't. Enlighten me.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

No. I don't. Enlighten me.

OK, last attempt, when did Jesus use a sword?

[Raider5678]

Just now, dimreepr said:

OK, last attempt, when did Jesus use a sword?

Nowhere. 

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

Nowhere. 

So why do you want to use a gun?

[Raider5678]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

So why do you want to use a gun?

I don't. I have no reason to.

 

I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with someone using a gun to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

 

[dimreepr]

9 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was merely pointing out that it will take personal sacrifice. As for what is going on in this thread I had only read up to the point where I quoted you. I now realize you are caught up in something ugly. I recommend simply not feeding trolls. 

Normally I wouldn't but I don't think Raider is a troll, just confused. 

[StringJunky]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Normally I wouldn't but I don't think Raider is a troll, just confused. 

If only we were young again and knew everything.  

[Silvestru]

Back in On-Topic Land:

Quote

 

FRANCE has said it does not recognise the results of the Russian presidential election held in the peninsula of Crimea, four years to the day after Moscow annexed the territory from Ukraine in a move that most of the world has slammed as illegal.

The French foreign ministry said in a statement: “France does not recognise the organisation of the Russian presidential election in Crimea today.

“Changing borders by force is contrary to international law, including commitments undertaken by the Russian Federation.”

 

Quote

 

STATE DEPARTMENT — 

Hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin won re-election, White House officials said his victory was no surprise, and they have no plans for President Trump to call Putin to congratulate him on the victory.

 

So Ten oz, you were right, Governments are slowly starting to at least show discontent.

[tuco]

7 hours ago, Silvestru said:

What are your thoughts over this ping-pong of power to get around the two consecutive terms law between  Medvedev and Putin? How democratic is that objectively speaking? 

And what are your thoughts over Putin's win here. (I'm surprised a thread about this has not yet been opened.) 

 

My thoughts are that Putin's win, and popularity, is partly (hard to enumerate) due to the West's attitude towards Russia, where such attitude comes partly (hard to enumerate) from ignorance of and disrespect towards Russians. Its - why Russia/Russians is/are the way it is/are? - a very complex issue, however, let me just note that people without relatively deep knowledge of Russian history cant really comprehend it and are left with relatively simple hmm thoughts. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by tuco

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, tuco said:

My thoughts are that Putin's win, and popularity, is partly (hard to enumerate) due to the West's attitude towards Russia, where such attitude comes partly (hard to enumerate) from ignorance of and disrespect towards Russians. Its - why Russia/Russians is/are the way it is/are? - a very complex issue, however, let me just note that people without relatively deep knowledge of Russian history cant really comprehend it and are left with relatively simple hmm thoughts. 

Or maybe it's because they do information control really well.

[Raider5678]

9 minutes ago, tuco said:

My thoughts are that Putin's win, and popularity, is partly (hard to enumerate) due to the West's attitude towards Russia, where such attitude comes partly (hard to enumerate) from ignorance of and disrespect towards Russians. Its - why Russia/Russians is/are the way it is/are? - a very complex issue, however, let me just note that people without relatively deep knowledge of Russian history cant really comprehend it and are left with relatively simple hmm thoughts. 

There are several accusations of fake voting, forced voting, etc.

Additionally, all the main opposition was barred from running.

[tuco]

18 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Or maybe it's because they do information control really well.

In my mind, as I noted when saying its a very complex issue, there are many factors. If it's mostly due to control of information, then I am not worried much simply because it can change relatively easily. It's not like Russians live in same conditions like North Koreans with regards to access to information. Even 30 years ago, when there was no internet, majority people in the former Soviet Blok knew the government was spreading bullshit. Perhaps there is a paradox in a sense that it could be argued that people in the digital age can be deceived easier than ever before, but I do not believe its mostly propaganda what keeps Putin popular, and he is popular. For example, and on a lighter note, sanctions against Russia were in my opinion mostly counterproductive, because you cannot break Russian people, people with syndrome of a great nation as I call it,  with sanctions  

11 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

There are several accusations of fake voting, forced voting, etc.

Additionally, all the main opposition was barred from running.

Indeed. Still, we have no idea how it influenced the result. And same with his biggest rival being disqualified, we have no idea how significant Navalny could have been. 5% or 50%? People did not have to vote for Putin in such numbers they did. Navalny himself called for a boycott and it seemed to have little influence.  

Edited March 20, 2018 by tuco

[Raider5678]

12 minutes ago, tuco said:

Navalny himself called for a boycott and it seemed to have little influence.  

 

Forced voting as in people being bussed to voting stations to vote a particular way, often has that effect.

 

And whether he would have been a powerful rival or not doesn't matter. The fact he didn't get a chance is what matters.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Raider5678

[tuco]

I agree with you that banning him was most likely a foul play. I am saying that the biggest problem is that Putin is popular and its in my opinion very hard for people without knowledge of Russia to comprehend how is that possible. I stated one reason, ignorance and disrespect Russians feel from the West, which in turn makes them lets say even more stubborn and supportive of Putin.  That is my interpretation anyway. Its like, how come people voted Trump or Berlusconi or Brexit? Sure, disinformation and lies backed with lots of money. In my opinion that is not the whole, not even the main, story. 

Obviously, we are not the only ones asking the question, for example here: What Makes Putin So Popular at Home? His Reputation Abroad - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/16/opinion/putin-popular-russia-election.html

Edited March 20, 2018 by tuco

[iNow]

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/976149860788375552

[pavelcherepan]

Well, that last quote is a bit uncalled for. I'm Russian and I was very certain that the result would be as we saw. I didn't vote myself, I was in the middle of nowhere and couldn't get to Melbourne in time to cast my vote, but for the lack of better options, and "against all" option for that matter, I guess I'd vote for Putin as well.

Thing is that Putin didn't really have any opponents worthy of mention. I know a lot of people in Russia, who support Navalny and would vote for him, but he was not allowed to run for president. This is one of Putin's strengths, he's very good at getting rid of anyone who might challenge his authority and as a result has no need to forge election results, even though, if need be, he could.

There are some other politicians in Russia who are held in very high regard in public opinion and could be worthy contenders, namely the Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and the current Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu. Both of Sergeys are very popular; Lavrov is held in high esteem for his intelligence and pro-Russia political views, even if not as nationalist as Putin is. Shoigu was for a long time Emergency Services minister and was highly popular in this role and in the current role also gets a lot of pro points from Russia's involvement in Syria among others. 

Thing is, though, the reason these two are successful government officials is that they know their place. They will not challenge their boss, even though they could put up a good fight. I would certainly vote for Lavrov, had he gone for president. Maybe they will go for the next presidency, when Putin won't be able to enter the lists. We'' have to wait and see... six more years.

Can't remember who said it, but the quote goes something like - "Here in US we had many bad presidents, but when it happened we sort of just waited for them to not be our president any more". In essence, that's the state of things in Russia nowadays. Mind you, Putin is not the worst it could be, we could have another drunk for a president.