The Trump/Putin Alliance

[Airbrush]

After the Russia elections Trump called Putin to congratulate him on having the powers of a dictator.  "I'm proud of you Vlad, I would like the powers you have!"  We would not have known about this if the Kremlin did not report it and some details were not leaked to the press.

After Xi of China takes power for life, Trump remarked that was a good idea.  "I'm proud of you Xi, I would like to have power for life!"  We can only assume Trump envies Kim Jong-Un for his absolute power, as a "smart cookie".

The House Intelligence Committee reached the conclusion that although Russia interfered with the US elections, it was NOT in favor or Trump.  That is at odds with all the US intelligence agencies, and should seem obviously false to anyone following the story and Trump's predictable defense of Putin.

Why does the news, including CNN and MSNBC, not simply say "Russia is fighting FOR TRUMP?"  Putin wants his puppet to remain in power.  The news always says the Russians interfered with the US elections to merely sew chaos in democracies.  Why not say that Putin is doing everything he can to keep Trump in power?  Putin will continue to interfere in the US midterm elections to help Republican congress retain majorities.  That will keep Trump safe from impeachment.  If we know the Russians are coming, and we know who they are helping (GOP), why can we not ambush them?

[zapatos]

11 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

 Why not say that Putin is doing everything he can to keep Trump in power? 

Because we don't know this to be true. You are looking at insufficient data to draw that conclusion, and doing so on CNN would be reckless and irresponsible.

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, Airbrush said:

The House Intelligence Committee reached the conclusion that although Russia interfered with the US elections, it was NOT in favor or Trump.  That is at odds with all the US intelligence agencies, and should seem obviously false to anyone following the story and Trump's predictable defense of Putin.

Those are the thoughts of the Republican half of that committee. The  Dems on that committee are not happy at all.

[Raider5678]

3 hours ago, Airbrush said:

why can we not ambush them?

And how would we do that?

[Phi for All]

23 hours ago, Airbrush said:

The news always says the Russians interfered with the US elections to merely sew chaos in democracies.

The addition of the word "merely" makes this sentence untrue. Remove it, and you have a statement backed by hard evidence, worthy of being reported. Nothing else you've suggested has that kind of trustworthy backing.

[Airbrush]

20 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

And how would we do that [ambush the Russians]?

By recognizing WHERE the attack is coming from, WHAT the objective of the attack is, and WHEN (leading to the midterm elections).  For people who rely on Facebook for their news, simply be skeptical about stories favoring the GOP and/or attacking the Dems. 

When the US Navy broke the Japanese code in 1942, they knew where the enemy was coming from and their objective, Midway, and when.  So an ambush is possible.

"The news always says the Russians interfered with the US elections to sew chaos in democracies."  But they will not say Putin is doing his best to keep his guy in office. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Airbrush

[Raider5678]

38 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

By recognizing WHERE the attack is coming from, WHAT the objective of the attack is, and WHEN (leading to the midterm elections).  For people who rely on Facebook for their news, simply be skeptical about stories favoring the GOP and/or attacking the Dems. 

 

IMO the American people aren't like a courtroom. Doesn't work like that.

In court, if evidence(DNC emails) is obtained illegally(through hacking), that evidence is to be thrown out and can't be used.

However, since American people don't simply ignore evidence against the DNC simply because Russians hacked it, they meddled in the elections.

 

My very honest opinion, if you want it, is that the best way to avoid being ambushed is to not be pulling BS like that in the first place. If the DNC hadn't been lying to people in the first place, covering things up, and rigging the democratic nomination regardless of how votes went, the emails wouldn't have caused anywhere near as much damage.

The horrible crime the Russian hackers did was publish nearly 20,000 emails. 

On top of that, the DNC had ANOTHER opportunity to fix it.

They could have said something like  "We're doing an internal review. People were caught lying to voters, people were caught hiding things, people were caught rigging the elections, these same people will be investigated and probably fired. We, as the Democratic National Convention, do not tolerate corruption and will take all actions possible to get rid of it in our party."

And then they could have followed through with it.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016-presidential-campaign-hacking-fast-facts/index.html

 

(unless CNN is controlled by Russian hackers and so are all the sources they've listed, the information I've posted here is in that link)

 

And this link outlines some of the things the emails say. Racist things(Skip to the last one on the page for that one), corruption, trying to rig the primaries, etc.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639370

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Raider5678

[Airbrush]

When I think of the "Trump-Russia Collusion" question, I'd prefer a new term "alliance".  All it required was a brief meeting of the minds of Trump and Putin, an alliance.  At that time Putin may have simply said to Trump "We will help you win the election, but we want you to be nice to us and ease off the sanctions."  And Trump simply answered "Yeah, sure."  That is all the "collusion" or conspiracy that may have taken place.  That is all that is needed.  That is why Trump keeps repeating over and over again "No collusion" because between him and Putin, all it took was a single brief meeting of the minds.  MAYBE the Mueller investigation will never turn up evidence of "collusion" because Trump and friends worked diligently at not leaving evidence for collusion or conspiracy.  There could be more evidence for criminal conspiracy that Mueller has not revealed yet.  Hopefully Mueller will make a dump of findings well in advanced of the midterm elections.

Trump is united with Putin in more than one way.  The way Russian intelligence works, as described by an x-CIA agent, is influence by the acronym "MICE".  M is for MONEY, I is for IDEOLOGY, C is for COERSION, and E is for EGO.  Every one of these methods may easily apply to Trump.  Trump is even ideologically united with Putin, because as a real estate tycoon, undisputed ruler of a big private company, Trump is an oligarch.

"Oligarchy ....is a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people might be distinguished by nobility, wealth, family ties, education or corporate, religious or military control. Such states are often controlled by families who typically pass their influence from one generation to the next, but inheritance is not a necessary condition for the application of this term.

Throughout history, oligarchies have often been tyrannical, relying on public obedience or oppression to exist. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy

[Ten oz]

5 hours ago, Airbrush said:

When I think of the "Trump-Russia Collusion" question, I'd prefer a new term "alliance".  All it required was a brief meeting of the minds of Trump and Putin, an alliance.

All it requires in practical application is for Trump to realize Russia in putting Intelligence efforts towards propaganda that supports him and embarrasses it. At this point we know for a fact Trump was briefed by the U.S. National Security during the election that Russia was doing this and yet Trump still ran around saying maybe it was China, Don Jr. knowing took meetings with Russians soliciting to help, members of Trump campaign team had direct connections to Russia, and members of Trump campaign have already pled guilt for lying to officials about it. Trump is President now. He has receive briefs detailing what Russia is doing yet continues to call the majority of it fake news and deny it. Trump was clearly a accessory during the crime and continues to be after. Trump's supporters play a games with the meaning of collusion arguing that there is no proof Trump explicitly sat down in advance and planned on this out with Russian Intelligence. It is a ridiculous standard.  Collusion and accessory can happen at any point before, during, or after a crime. 

[Raider5678]

10 hours ago, Airbrush said:

When I think of the "Trump-Russia Collusion" question, I'd prefer a new term "alliance". 

 

Who cares?

The Democratic party was doing under the table BS and got caught redhanded. They decided to deny and then cover it up.

The Republican party was doing under the table BS and got caught redhanded. They decided to deny and then cover it up.

 

The "Trump-Russia collusion" question is pretty much only a question because it worked in his favor. 

 

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

The DNC is not the topic of this discussion, as it is neither Trump nor Putin, and in perusing your link, it does not seem to support your assertions. But that all belongs in another thread.

 

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

The "Trump-Russia collusion" question is pretty much only a question because it worked in his favor. 

And perhaps the tiny issue that it would be foreign interference with elections and involve actually breaking laws rather than internal rules of an organization.

Also there is this:

Quote

The campaign official, Rick Gates, had frequent phone calls in September and October 2016 with a person the F.B.I. believes had active links to Russian spy services at the time, the document said. Mr. Gates also told an associate the person “was a former Russian Intelligence Officer with the G.R.U.,” the Russian military intelligence agency.

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by CharonY

[Ten oz]

4 minutes ago, CharonY said:

And perhaps the tiny issue that it would be foreign interference with elections and involve actually breaking laws rather than internal rules of an organization.

Where internal rules broken? Super delegates were free to do as they wish per the rules. In 2008 Clinton got more votes than Obama but the super delegates went to Obama. That is the way the Democratic primary system was set up. Rules weren't broken per se but rather millions of anti Clinton voters in addition to pro Sander supporters simple didn't like the process. That said the process was the same one all candidates entering the Primary were aware of. There is a huge difference between violating rules and doing things the opposition doesn't like. 

[CharonY]

It is getting off-topic, so I will quickly answer to that question based on my understanding and leave it that. From what I read the convention is to have an open contest (i.e. primary) and only after the candidate is chosen do they exert control over the DNC. Yet, in Clinton's case she secured significant influence even before. Since I am not familiar with the rules the respective parties made up, it may been an actual violation. Yet, quite a few democrats saw it at least as a breach of the spirit of the process.

[TheVat]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/kremlin-papers-appear-to-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house

Quote

Western intelligence agencies are understood to have been aware of the documents for some months and to have carefully examined them. The papers, seen by the Guardian, seem to represent a serious and highly unusual leak from within the Kremlin.

The Guardian has shown the documents to independent experts who say they appear to be genuine. Incidental details come across as accurate. The overall tone and thrust is said to be consistent with Kremlin security thinking....

 

 

Somehow this utterly failed to surprise me. 

 

[geordief]

Could this be Russian disinformation ? (why it would appear genuine for one )

Just stirring the pot now he sees how weak the social fabric of the States really is?

 

Edit :plus maybe a message to Trump?

Edited July 15, 2021 by geordief

[philo2001]

It is not by chance that Obama called Russia a regional power. Claims of influence are just a circus for the people. Do you think that a powerful country would act in a neutral form at the Olympics and listen to every word in the European Union? Even within Russia itself, the president does not have actual power, he can only perform operational work within the framework of the initiative of legislators, and even money is allocated from above. How then can Putin influence what is happening in the most powerful country in the world, isn't it ridiculous?