the mind + 4D-spacetime = the experience of the unfolding of the events moment by moment in the actual moment by an observer

[swansont]

55 minutes ago, Maartenn100 said:

But, the past is gone and the future isn't there yet, in our experience. Only the actual moment exists and is real. We observe the past, but we are in the present moment, and that's all there is to our conscious experience. Even when you remember something from the past, it pops up in the present. Because the present is all there is (to minds).

Memory isn't a conscious experience? It's an unconscious experience? 

[geordief]

Maybe the present is an illusion( it sure is fleeting,are you sure it was there?  )

[studiot]

The classic story of how to defeat an superior alien AI robot.

Write P.T.O. on both sides of a piece of paper and hand it to him.

 

You need to break out of the viscous circle your thinking has got you into.

I am minded to reinforce Eise's post, but realise that this is Philosophy.

Or to observe that Penrose, in his later years, endorses an explanation of quantum mechanics that involves the mind in the quantum process and negates the idea of past, presebnt and future as separate disjoint entities.

Space has Euclidian geometry. Spacetime does not.

 

 

[MigL]

"Presentism' is a local foliation of the block universe.

IOW an interpretation of a model for GR.

Edited February 10, 2020 by MigL

[Maartenn100]

New theory indicates present and future exist simultaneously...

[Strange]

That is not a new theory. And not really a theory, just the meanderings of a philosopher.

Also, you shouldn't link to such appalling examples of "journalism" (blogging). Note the complete lack of proper references, for example. And no mention of the fact that Dr.Skow made these statements when promoting a book he wrote.

[Maartenn100]

You're right. Thanks for your feedback.

[Strange]

On 2/10/2020 at 7:19 PM, geordief said:

Maybe the present is an illusion( it sure is fleeting,are you sure it was there?  )

I would say it is an illusion. When we think we are perceiving the present, it is something that has been created by the brain from inputs spread over several hundred milliseconds. So, really, we are living in the past (or pasts) but are completely unaware of it. The only time we notice it is when we experience illusions like deja vu or chronostasis.

[geordief]

24 minutes ago, Strange said:

I would say it is an illusion. When we think we are perceiving the present, it is something that has been created by the brain from inputs spread over several hundred milliseconds. So, really, we are living in the past (or pasts) but are completely unaware of it. The only time we notice it is when we experience illusions like deja vu or chronostasis.

Warning rabbit holes ahead; is the illusion(of experiencing the present)  in the present?

 

Is the illusion a hole  or a reality?

 

Does time never stand still and so no "moment in time" exists as a separate entity?

 

 

[dimreepr]

No moment in time exists outside the space it occupies. 

[Strange]

38 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

No moment in time exists outside the space it occupies. 

Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue ... what's the word for something that sounds profound but isn't ...

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Warning rabbit holes ahead; is the illusion(of experiencing the present)  in the present?

Our brain wants us to think it is. But actually, it happened a while ago.

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue ... what's the word for something that sounds profound but isn't ...

In this context, the present is a gift???

Edited February 21, 2020 by dimreepr

[Eise]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue ... what's the word for something that sounds profound but isn't ...

Dennett calls it a 'deepity'. I like that word.

[geordief]

10 minutes ago, Eise said:

Dennett calls it a 'deepity'. I like that word.

A profundithet? (sic )

[geordief]

22 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Our brain wants us to think it is. But actually, it happened a while ago.

 Is that  the scenario any different from our gut belief that the Sun is as we see it "now"  and not 8 light minutes in the past?

Does the former scenario not just play out on a smaller scale than the latter?

(did the illusion of presenters happen  in the past or Some kind of a subjective present? Is a subjective present by definition illusory or is it just a separate reality?)

[dimreepr]

12 minutes ago, geordief said:

(did the illusion of presenters happen  in the past or Some kind of a subjective present? Is a subjective present by definition illusory or is it just a separate reality?)

Neither and both. 

[Strange]

4 hours ago, geordief said:

Is that  the scenario any different from our gut belief that the Sun is as we see it "now"  and not 8 light minutes in the past?

I would say it is different because the brain constructs our concept of the present from inputs that come from a variety of sources that can differ by up to almost a second in the time they happened. Plus, it fills in any missing bits using memory and invention.

And the concept of a continuous present (or even a continuous world around you) is also an invention of the brain. You get intermittent inputs; for example, the input from your eyes are ignored during saccades movement but you don't notice because the brain fills the gaps by back-filling with the signal you get after the movement stops. You get varying quality information; for example peripheral vision is fuzzy and monochrome and yet you see a detailed colourful world even out of the corner of your eye.