Mehmet Saygın Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 If we think about all possible color hues and these colors are saturated ( pure hues without lighter shades ), yellow is the second lightest color next to white and it is also the closest color to white. ( I mean here the lightness, not brightness. If we are talking about the brightness, lime green is perceived by human eye as a brighter color than white, because our cones are most sensitive at the 550 nm wavelength.) How can this situation be explained physically ?
studiot Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 You first need to set out whether you are discussing the colour (subtractive colour) of some object such as a painted wall or the light from a light source (additive colour).
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 7, 2018 Author Posted April 7, 2018 1 hour ago, studiot said: You first need to set out whether you are discussing the colour (subtractive colour) of some object such as a painted wall or the light from a light source (additive colour). For both subtractive and additive color
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 8, 2018 Author Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) On 07.04.2018 at 8:29 PM, studiot said: You first need to set out whether you are discussing the colour (subtractive colour) of some object such as a painted wall or the light from a light source (additive colour). I arrange it my question like this, what is the answer for subtractive color theory and what is the answer for additive color theory ? Edited April 8, 2018 by Mehmet Saygın
koti Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: I arrange it my question like this, what is the answer for subtractive color theory and what is the answer for additive color theory ? 550nm is perceived as a more vivid color because its right in the middle of the visible spectrum. Im not sure I understand your question but regardless of the color model used, that is the case. Obviously you will get differences in vividness of color depending on the technology used but when its around those 530nm-550nm green you’ll get apperance of higher brightness compared to other wavelenghts. If you have two identical power lasers one 530nm and the other some other color like blue or red, the green one will appear brighter to the eye (it actually isn’t brighter though) You get very different results of color perception in the subtractive color model...in theory a green paint on a car should appear brighter than blue paint but it depends on factors one of which is the most important - color perception is personal, we all see colors a little differently. Regardless of the color models or technologies used, the colors from the edges of the spectrum (blue on one side and red on the other) will be perceived as less vivid/bright than the colors more to the middle of the spectrum. Edited April 8, 2018 by koti 1
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 7 hours ago, koti said: Im not sure I understand your question This is my original question which is asked by me "If we think about all possible color hues and these colors are saturated ( pure hues without lighter shades ), yellow is the second lightest color next to white and it is also the closest color to white. How can this situation be explained physically ? ( I mean here the lightness, not brightness. If we are talking about the brightness, lime green is perceived by human eye as a brighter color than white, because our cones are most sensitive at the 550 nm wavelength.)"
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 35 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: This is my original question which is asked by me "If we think about all possible color hues and these colors are saturated ( pure hues without lighter shades ), yellow is the second lightest color next to white and it is also the closest color to white. How can this situation be explained physically ? ( I mean here the lightness, not brightness. If we are talking about the brightness, lime green is perceived by human eye as a brighter color than white, because our cones are most sensitive at the 550 nm wavelength.)" In order to determine anything about color you need a reference point. These refefence points are color models. So a certain color will have more lightness than another color only if you operate within a color model framework. If you do not use a color model it is impossible to determine anything about color besides subjective statements based onhuman perception which is different for everyone. So your statement that „yellow is the second lightest color” (what does that even mean) doesnt make sense without opersting within some color model. Your question how to explain that physically is null as a result. You need to be more specific, try rephrasing what your question is. 1
StringJunky Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 53 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: This is my original question which is asked by me "If we think about all possible color hues and these colors are saturated ( pure hues without lighter shades ), yellow is the second lightest color next to white and it is also the closest color to white. How can this situation be explained physically ? I don't think you can because it's physiological trait that has evolved to delineate finer variations of green through yellow better than the other. colours.
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, koti said: human perception which is different for everyone This is the most common myth, Is the color I perceive same as the color you perceive ? The answer is absolutely "yes" if you don't have a color blindness or tetrachromacy, because we all have the same color perception. A normal trichromat human have S,M and L cones which detects short,medium and long wavelengths respectively. Color taste and color perception are different things. Color taste is subjective but color perception is not subjective. Let's be aware of this. The question is simple,there is no need to make it hard. "If we think about all possible color hues and these colors are saturated ( pure hues without lighter shades ), yellow is the second lightest color next to white and it is also the closest color to white. How can this situation be explained physically ?" 1 hour ago, StringJunky said: I don't think you can because it's physiological trait that has evolved to delineate finer variations of green through yellow better than the other. colours. No. It can be true for brightness or perceiving more bright the variations of green through yellow, but your answer is not related to lightness. Edited April 9, 2018 by Mehmet Saygın -1
StringJunky Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: It can be true for brightness or perceiving more bright the variations of green through yellow, but your answer is not related to lightness. I'm suggesting the apparent lightness/brightness of a colour is a physiological phenomenon. It's not to do with physics, as in the objective properties of colours. Edited April 9, 2018 by StringJunky
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, StringJunky said: I'm suggesting the apparent lightness/brightness of a colour is a physiological phenomenon. It's not to do with physics, as in the objective properties of colours. Lightness is related to reflection, brightness is related to how we perceive. These things are different concepts. Edited April 9, 2018 by Mehmet Saygın -1
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mehmet Saygın said: This is the most common myth, Is the color I perceive same as the color you perceive ? The answer is absolutely "yes" if you don't have a color blindness or tetrachromacy, because we all have the same color perception. A normal trichromat human have S,M and L cones which detects short,medium and long wavelengths respectively. Color taste and color perception are different things. Color taste is subjective but color perception is not subjective. Let's be aware of this. The question is simple,there is no need to make it hard. "If we think about all possible color hues and these colors are saturated ( pure hues without lighter shades ), yellow is the second lightest color next to white and it is also the closest color to white. How can this situation be explained physically ?" No. It can be true for brightness or perceiving more bright the variations of green through yellow, but your answer is not related to lightness. You are mistaken. Two healthy individuals will perceive color differently based on many factors including previous experiences, psychological factors, etc. Color perception is subjective and its not a myth, its a well known fact, we all see color differently. http://www.statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/projects/colour/colour.pdf Edited April 9, 2018 by koti 1
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 There is a lot of research on this but it might be a difficult subject to fully grasp - color is only in your mind. It’s a sensation, just like touch is. Color doesn’t have any physical reality of it’s own, at least not outside your head. This might sound strange but its confirmed by research - Color is not a property of the thing that’s causing the sensation. So in fact grass is not green and the sky is not blue, rather they have physical properties that make you perceive green and blue, but even that’s true only sometimes. 2
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, koti said: You are mistaken. Two healthy individuals will perceive color differently based on many factors including previous experiences, psychological factors, etc. Color perception is subjective and its not a myth, its a well known fact, we all see color differently. No,I am right, your thoughts are more emotional. If we have the same S,M,L cones (except colorblinds and tetrachromats) ,everyone see the same color. Your ideas are more about colors that people feel. My approach is physical, your approach is psychological. Everyone see the same, but feel about different because of own experiences. That is the key. 2 hours ago, koti said: There is a lot of research on this but it might be a difficult subject to fully grasp - color is only in your mind. It’s a sensation, just like touch is. Color doesn’t have any physical reality of it’s own, at least not outside your head. This might sound strange but its confirmed by research - Color is not a property of the thing that’s causing the sensation. So in fact grass is not green and the sky is not blue, rather they have physical properties that make you perceive green and blue, but even that’s true only sometimes. If everyone see colors differently,the life will be not easy. (i.e. problems that color-blind people feel in the traffic) Edited April 9, 2018 by Mehmet Saygın -1
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: No,I am right, your thoughts are more emotional. If we have the same S,M,L cones (except colorblinds and tetrachromats) ,everyone see the same color. Your ideas are more about colors that people feel. My approach is physical, your approach is psychological. Everyone see the same, but feel about different because of own experiences. That is the key. Any evidence for your claim ? 1
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, koti said: Any evidence for your claim ? That is completely what I said : http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120209-do-we-all-see-the-same-colours -1
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: That is completely what I said : http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120209-do-we-all-see-the-same-colours No. Actually that popscience article states exactly the opposite of your claims that we all perceive the same colors. Try again. 2
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, koti said: No. Actually that popscience article states exactly the opposite of your claims that we all perceive the same colors. Try again. I think you have a problem understanding your reading. I would take a deep breath and recommend reading it again calmly. I do you a favor and add another link http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/sky-really-blue-some-hunter-gatherers-don-t-describe-colors-same-way-most-people-do At the beginning of this debate, I said we see the color same, but feels or interprets differently because of own experiences. This two links also tell the parallel things what I said. When everyone look at an apple, we see a color signal between 620-730 nm reflected light wavelengths. Maybe this colored light feels different person by person,but it is the scientific fact that everyone see the same reflection range. Edited April 9, 2018 by Mehmet Saygın -1
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: I think you have a problem understanding your reading. I would take a deep breath and recommend reading it again calmly. I do you a favor and add another link http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/sky-really-blue-some-hunter-gatherers-don-t-describe-colors-same-way-most-people-do At the beginning of this debate, I said we see the color same, but feels or interprets differently because of own experiences. This two links also tell the parallel things what I said. When everyone look at an apple, we see a color signal between 620-730 nm reflected light wavelengths. Maybe this colored light feels different person by person,but it is the scientific fact that everyone see the same reflection range. Again, this time its in the title itself of what you linked: ”Is the sky really blue? Some hunter-gatherers don’t describe colors the same way most people do” I’m glad you took a deep breath, it will be easier for you to understand that your statement: 6 hours ago, Mehmet Saygın said: This is the most common myth, Is the color I perceive same as the color you perceive ? The answer is absolutely "yes" is wrong. Color perception has to include the brain. The physics processes involved are the same for everybody but color perception happens in the brain. 2
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, koti said: Again, this time its in the title itself of what you linked: ”Is the sky really blue? Some hunter-gatherers don’t describe colors the same way most people do” I’m glad you took a deep breath, it will be easier for you to understand that your statement: is wrong. Color perception has to include the brain. The physics processes involved are the same for everybody but color perception happens in the brain. Are you mentally disabled ? or you do not have the intelligence to interpret what you read ? If so, this debate has already been unfulfilled, I guess I have to learn sign language for communicating with you There are some people who have the capacity to understand me, maybe I explain for them. The latest article said that they are also see the colors as we can but they have not any special description for it.(i.e. blue hues very little in the nature,so they do not face to face this color, because of this reason they have not any special name for this color.) I were also tried to explain we see the colors same, but interpret differently, (as we do everything) but you need to do more than tearing the peel from banana for understanding. Edited April 9, 2018 by Mehmet Saygın -5
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: Are you mentally disabled ? or you do not have the intelligence to interpret what you read ? If so, this debate has already been unfulfilled, I guess I have to learn sign language for communicating with you There are some people who have the capacity to understand me, maybe I explain for them. So much for a civil discussion. Good luck with explaining your false premises to others. 2
Mehmet Saygın Posted April 9, 2018 Author Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, koti said: So much for a civil discussion. Good luck with explaining your false premises to others. It is wrong for you, but truths for science. -2
koti Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) @Mehmet Saygın, I got more than 10 downvotes from you in various threads in a timespan of a few minutes and you insulted me for no reason - please stop doing that. Behave. Edit: And the downvotes keep coming, this time presumably from a different account. I think 16 is the final count as of now. Edited April 9, 2018 by koti 1
Strange Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Mehmet Saygın said: That is completely what I said : http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120209-do-we-all-see-the-same-colours That article is about why people see exactly the same thing as different colours. There are also people with various types of colour-blindness who also see colours differently than most.
Phi for All Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Mehmet Saygın said: Are you mentally disabled ? or you do not have the intelligence to interpret what you read ? ! Moderator Note No more personal attacks. We attack ideas here, not people.
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