civilizedvisualpresence Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 We need to break the taboo that does not allow serious scientific research to create grounds for serious scientific studies of the presence of the flying vehicles of extraterrestrials and their artificial structures on our moon, in order to use the outcome of such scientific research for radical improvement of our technology with the only purpose to serve the improvement of our standard of life for all our humanity of our civilization on this Earth, and to avoid and prevent militarization of our societies, avoid politics of mob-populism, improve our social relations in order to distinguish between like and dislike and avoiding extreme feelings of hate and disgust, and with the end goal achievements to prevent proxy wars and threats of nuclear weapons.
beecee Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, civilizedvisualpresence said: We need to break the taboo that does not allow serious scientific research to create grounds for serious scientific studies of the presence of the flying vehicles of extraterrestrials and their artificial structures on our moon, in order to use the outcome of such scientific research for radical improvement of our technology with the only purpose to serve the improvement of our standard of life for all our humanity of our civilization on this Earth, and to avoid and prevent militarization of our societies, avoid politics of mob-populism, improve our social relations in order to distinguish between like and dislike and avoiding extreme feelings of hate and disgust, and with the end goal achievements to prevent proxy wars and threats of nuclear weapons. While certainly I accept and believe we are not alone for obvious reasons, as yet we have absolutely no evidence of any life beyond Earth. Many cosmologists though are of the opinion that we may have convincing evidence of ETL within a decade. If by chance we were alone, it would raise far many more questions though then the affirmative. UFO's are simply just that...unidentified with a small percentage remaining as unexplained. No, I have not watched your crap videos. Edited April 20, 2018 by beecee
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) I come close to qualifying as a genuine UFO nut, how would you suggest we scientifically investigate a phenomenon that seems to occur at random intervals and has no evidence other than eye witnesses, fuzzy photos, videos of lights in the sky? The very best evidence consists of photos of "something" that appears to be unknown and radar returns that could be natural or secrete technology. The videos you have provided are nothing but fluff... What UFO sighting do you think is conclusive evidence of aliens? Edited April 20, 2018 by Moontanman
civilizedvisualpresence Posted April 20, 2018 Author Posted April 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, beecee said: While certainly I accept and believe we are not alone for obvious reasons, as yet we have absolutely no evidence of any life beyond Earth. Many cosmologists though are of the opinion that we may have convincing evidence of ETL within a decade. If by chance we were alone, it would raise far many more questions though then the affirmative. UFO's are simply just that...unidentified with a small percentage remaining as unexplained. No, I have not watched your crap videos. 6 minutes ago, Moontanman said: I come close to qualifying as a genuine UFO nut, how would you suggest we scientifically investigate a phenomenon that seems to occur at random intervals and has no evidence other than eye witnesses, fuzzy photos, videos of lights in the sky? The very best evidence consists of photos of "something" that appears to be unknown and radar returns that could be natural or secrete technology. The videos you have provided are nothing but fluff... What UFO sighting do you think is conclusive evidence of aliens? Thank you for your comment, but with due respect do no read only the cover of a book if you want to know what the book is about. I trust in your patience to take the short time of watching and analyzing the provided information, which is not for profit. Wish you a happy and long life.
John Cuthber Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, civilizedvisualpresence said: We need to break the taboo that does not allow serious scientific research Serious scientific research requires evidence- usually repeatable evidence. So, you can't do research on things that don't provide evidence. That's not a "taboo", it's the basis of science so, if we say we don't need to follow it in this line of research, what's to stop people deciding to ignore it in other fields? Would you like to break the taboo and allow , for example, medicines that have no basis in evidence?
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, civilizedvisualpresence said: Thank you for your comment, but with due respect do no read only the cover of a book if you want to know what the book is about. I trust in your patience to take the short time of watching and analyzing the provided information, which is not for profit. Wish you a happy and long life. Video are frowned on as evidence on this site and yours are considerably less than convincing. Again i ask you for the most convincing sighting you know of, I have a few but you are the OP of this thread...
beecee Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, civilizedvisualpresence said: Thank you for your comment, but with due respect do no read only the cover of a book if you want to know what the book is about. I trust in your patience to take the short time of watching and analyzing the provided information, which is not for profit. Wish you a happy and long life. I always read more then the cover of any book. Now let me reiterate...95% of all UFO sightings are explain by natural phenomena. The remaining 5% remain as unexplained or as the "U" in UFO means, unidentified. Please try an avoid automatically classing something that is unidentified, as being of Alien origin. I would dearly love for confirmation of ETL to be confirmed before I kick the bucket, but you need to accept that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Fuzzy photos, second hand hearsay does not cut it.
civilizedvisualpresence Posted April 20, 2018 Author Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, John Cuthber said: Serious scientific research requires evidence- usually repeatable evidence. So, you can't do research on things that don't provide evidence. That's not a "taboo", it's the basis of science so, if we say we don't need to follow it in this line of research, what's to stop people deciding to ignore it in other fields? Would you like to break the taboo and allow , for example, medicines that have no basis in evidence? I agree with your comment and in principle I am trying only to ignite the analytical thinking such as yours in order to prove authenticity, and avoid the race for profit from many scientific circles in order to simplify the premises of started serious research, and not admitting to manipulation. Wish you a happy and long life.
John Cuthber Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 WRT "Existence of extraterrestrials all around us and our need to listen to each other." analytical thinking tells me two things: there is no such evidence listening is good, regardless of the presence or absence of such evidence. This thread is not going to be made better by being made longer.
beecee Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, civilizedvisualpresence said: I agree with your comment and in principle I am trying only to ignite the analytical thinking such as yours in order to prove authenticity, and avoid the race for profit from many scientific circles in order to simplify the premises of started serious research, and not admitting to manipulation. Wish you a happy and long life. The only manipulation I see is the manipulation of your own gullibility going on the inane videos you link to.
civilizedvisualpresence Posted April 20, 2018 Author Posted April 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Moontanman said: Video are frowned on as evidence on this site and yours are considerably less than convincing. Again i ask you for the most convincing sighting you know of, I have a few but you are the OP of this thread... The evidence which I know are extremely zoomed view of objects over the moon and on the moon, and even other objects in space, however I admit that I am not the cradle of the truth because the truth needs lengthy discussions of many scientific minds, and you are the respectful subject of it. I was a skeptic myself before doing the filming of space myself.
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: Serious scientific research requires evidence- usually repeatable evidence. So, you can't do research on things that don't provide evidence. That's not a "taboo", it's the basis of science so, if we say we don't need to follow it in this line of research, what's to stop people deciding to ignore it in other fields? Would you like to break the taboo and allow , for example, medicines that have no basis in evidence? John, I respect you and your knowledge in most areas but the phenomenon of UFOs has considerable evidence. I cannot honestly say what the evidence means, it could be anything from aliens to brain farts common to all humans but to say there is no evidence is simply not true. There have been scientists who were convinced something extraordinary was going on. These scientists were privy to info we simply do not have access to. The US Air Force actively pursued a policy of ridicule and made a point to influence this policy among academics. The official investigation called the Condon Report was a sham and started out with a conclusion and tried to make sure only evidence that supported that conclusion was heard. Doesn't mean UFOs are alien space craft but the stench of a coverup still lingers to this day. One scientist J. Allen Hynek, who was hired by the air force to debunk UFO sightings actually changed sides and stated publicly that the air force was being dishonest about UFOs and in his estimation UFOs represented technology not of this world. Still the evidence is not a smoking gun, or even a gun but it is interesting. I think we currently have the technology falsify this problem but no one seems to be willing to employ the means to see if we can do it and it's mostly due to the ridicule the subject attracts...
pzkpfw Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia Pareidolia
civilizedvisualpresence Posted April 20, 2018 Author Posted April 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, pzkpfw said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia Pareidolia I agree with you when it is only one object, or even a couple of objects. But when the number of such objects it is increased to considerable value, then the evaluation should take some extra work. Wish you a happy and long life, thank you for your comment.
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, civilizedvisualpresence said: I agree with you when it is only one object, or even a couple of objects. But when the number of such objects it is increased to considerable value, then the evaluation should take some extra work. Wish you a happy and long life, thank you for your comment. Again, do you have any evidence other than a video? On this site a link to a paper is appreciated... To discuss this requires us to break it down into individual reports. We cannot allow gish galloping... Edited April 20, 2018 by Moontanman
John Cuthber Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, Moontanman said: There have been scientists who were convinced something extraordinary was going on. Yep. Always. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canal And then the evidence showed they were wrong.
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: Yep. Always. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canal And then the evidence showed they were wrong. Well so far no evidence shows they are wrong and the lack of interest in evidence is disturbing... Martian canals? You're reaching John... Anytime ridicule substitutes for evidence there is a problem... Edited April 20, 2018 by Moontanman
beecee Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Moontanman said: Still the evidence is not a smoking gun, or even a gun but it is interesting. I think we currently have the technology falsify this problem but no one seems to be willing to employ the means to see if we can do it and it's mostly due to the ridicule the subject attracts... The 5% or so of UFO's that remain as unexplained, certainly do offer points of conjecture and evidence of unusual happenings etc. But also one of mankind's age old questions is "are we alone?", and I believe the answer again is more then likely no, we are not alone...the sheer extent and content of the universe and the stuff of life being everywhere we look, tells us that. Time and distances though are the two barriers between interplanetary contact. In saying all that, and as I'm sure you will agree, as yet we do not have any extraordinary evidence, to confirm this extraordinary claim of whether we are alone or not. My questions to our friend who firmly believes we have been visited, is why over the many many years of sightings, havn't these Aliens made their visitations official? Why do they just keep on flitterring in then flitterring out again? They would have nothing to be afraid of being, obviously advanced beings and certainly would not really want of anything as everything we have on Earth is found throughout the galaxy and beyond.
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, beecee said: The 5% or so of UFO's that remain as unexplained, certainly do offer points of conjecture and evidence of unusual happenings etc. More importantly many of the unexplained suffer from an embarrassment of data. Quote But also one of mankind's age old questions is "are we alone?", and I believe the answer again is more then likely no, we are not alone...the sheer extent and content of the universe and the stuff of life being everywhere we look, tells us that. Time and distances though are the two barriers between interplanetary contact. In saying all that, and as I'm sure you will agree, as yet we do not have any extraordinary evidence, to confirm this extraordinary claim of whether we are alone or not. Time and distance are not barriers, we currently possess the technology to colonise the galaxy, slow and steady wins the race... Quote My questions to our friend who firmly believes we have been visited, is why over the many many years of sightings, havn't these Aliens made their visitations official? Why do they just keep on flitterring in then flitterring out again? They would have nothing to be afraid of being, obviously advanced beings and certainly would not really want of anything as everything we have on Earth is found throughout the galaxy and beyond. The motivations of aliens are.. well alien. we have no idea what their motivations might be... Edited April 20, 2018 by Moontanman
beecee Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Moontanman said: Time and distance are not barriers, we currently possess the technology to colonise the galaxy, slow and steady wins the race... In time that may well happen, but of course at this time we actually do not have the technology to colonise anything beyond the Moon or Mars, and our maximum speeds that we could ever reach, may well see any Aliens we had evidence for on a distant body, go extinct before we ever reach them. Remember I could send a message to my cousin in M31, and he would not receive it for 2.5 million years. Quote The motivations of aliens are.. well alien. we have no idea what their motivations might be... I'm sure if we were being visited, they would be intelligent in advance of us, and I'm sure over time they would realise that due to their advance state we would be no threat to them, and I'm confident that they would also realise that we were far more advanced then say any insect life, and what would they really want? Water? Water is found everywhere....Living space? We have so far discovered over 3000 extra solar planets with a good proportion being terrestrial. And I''m pretty sure that Intelligence far in excess of human intelligence, would see them as not aggressive or dominant. I mean while the human race certainly has a lot to be ashamed of and while certainly still aggressive, we have mellowed somewhat over the years since the middle ages. Any less intelligent Aliens of course could not achieve inter-stellar travel. 17 minutes ago, Moontanman said: More importantly many of the unexplained suffer from an embarrassment of data. Like I said...extraordinary evidence..Show me an Alien artifact, some Alien excreta, an Alien body, a discarded Alien syringe after all the Anal probing they are known for, some Alien structural space ship or part there of..anything! Edited April 20, 2018 by beecee
Moontanman Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, beecee said: In time that may well happen, but of course at this time we actually do not have the technology to colonise anything beyond the Moon or Mars, and our maximum speeds that we could ever reach, may well see any Aliens we had evidence for on a distant body, go extinct before we ever reach them. Remember I could send a message to my cousin in M31, and he would not receive it for 2.5 million years. Self contained space colonies could in theory colonise the entire galaxy in a couple million years. An eye blink in cosmic time. Colonising planets is difficult due to gravity wells. The Trojan points of jupiter contain trillions of tons of material that could be used to manufacture space habitats like Japan makes cars... Interstellar space contains a great many objects that could be used to make new colonies once we use up the Oort cloud and Kuiper belt. We really do have the means all we need is the will. Controlled fusion would help as well... 1 minute ago, beecee said: I'm sure if we were being visited, they would be intelligent in advance of us, and I'm sure over time they would realise that due to their advance state we would be no threat to them, and I'm confident that they would also realise that we were far more advanced then say any insect life, and what would they really want? Water? Water is found everywhere....Living space? We have so far discovered over 3000 extra solar planets with a good proportion being terrestrial. And I''m pretty sure that Intelligence far in excess of human intelligence, would see them as not aggressive or dominant. I mean while the human race certainly has a lot to be ashamed of and while certainly still aggressive, we have mellowed somewhat over the years since the middle ages. Any less intelligent Aliens of course could not achieve inter-stellar travel. Planets are unlikely to be Earth like enough to support humans, a few will be to be sure but space habitats are or will be the gold standard. Aliens may very well have no interest in planets or even gravity wells close to stars. Once you break free of the need for planets the galaxy is your oyster and there is no need to linger close to stars...
beecee Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Moontanman said: Self contained space colonies could in theory colonise the entire galaxy in a couple million years. An eye blink in cosmic time. Yep, but at this time, we do not have the necessary technology to achieve anything like it. Let me sum up at this time... I'm not debating whether life exists elsewhere....I'm sure it does I'm not debating that individuals and/or groups have witnessed UFO's...I'm sure they have, including myself. I am being critical that some seem to automatically equate unidentified with Alien origin. I am being critical of the fact that some claim Earth has been visited by Aliens: That may well be true, but we do not have the necessary extraordinary evidence to support that supposed visitation. The greatest educator of our time, Carl Sagan was renowned for debunking supposed UFO's and Aliens, but the same man also firmly believed we were/are not alone. It was his idea of the plaques on the Voyager probes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEaucytiEwM
Moontanman Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, beecee said: Yep, but at this time, we do not have the necessary technology to achieve anything like it. Admittedly controlled fusion would make it far easier but we do have the technology, O'Nell cylinders were first proposed in 1976, we do have the tech to build them but they would require we stop spending money of ways to kill each other... 4 minutes ago, beecee said: Let me sum up at this time... I'm not debating whether life exists elsewhere....I'm sure it does Agreed 4 minutes ago, beecee said: I'm not debating that individuals and/or groups have witnessed UFO's...I'm sure they have, including myself. I haven't 4 minutes ago, beecee said: I am being critical that some seem to automatically equate unidentified with Alien origin. I am being critical of the fact that some claim Earth has been visited by Aliens: That may well be true, but we do not have the necessary extraordinary evidence to support that supposed visitation. You are correct, an unknown is just that an unknown. But to ignore unknowns seems a bad idea. To ignore them because the Air force wants them to be ignored is dangerous IMHO... 4 minutes ago, beecee said: The greatest educator of our time, Carl Sagan was renowned for debunking supposed UFO's and Aliens, but the same man also firmly believed we were/are not alone. It was his idea of the plaques on the Voyager probes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEaucytiEwM Carl Sagan is one of my heros but he is still an authority speaking of something he cannot know any more than we can due to lack of investigation. Many sighting are interesting but only one alien space craft is world changing in scope. My personal fav sighting is the 1952 Washington DC sightings. Might not have been anything but a weather phenomena but none of the experts on sight at the time agreed with the air force's assessment. Films from the time of the Air force's official denials were so obviously BS it really does make one wonder... 25 minutes ago, beecee said: Yep, but at this time, we do not have the necessary technology to achieve anything like it. Let me sum up at this time... I'm not debating whether life exists elsewhere....I'm sure it does I'm not debating that individuals and/or groups have witnessed UFO's...I'm sure they have, including myself. I am being critical that some seem to automatically equate unidentified with Alien origin. I am being critical of the fact that some claim Earth has been visited by Aliens: That may well be true, but we do not have the necessary extraordinary evidence to support that supposed visitation. The greatest educator of our time, Carl Sagan was renowned for debunking supposed UFO's and Aliens, but the same man also firmly believed we were/are not alone. It was his idea of the plaques on the Voyager probes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEaucytiEwM BeeCee you might like this, he is my fav futurist...
beecee Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moontanman said: BeeCee you might like this, he is my fav futurist... I,m an optimist Moontanman...truly! I certainly am of the opinion that avoiding any catastrophic astronomical event, and our own Earthly follies, and given the time, we should be able to achieve most of what is allowed for by the laws of physics and GR. That includes possible warp travel by manipulating spacetime. JPL also has this a a future production means, but they still realize that it is probably a millenium off as yet, if it is at all possible to achieve...Dyson spheres, space elevators, etc are also futuristic human dreams and possibilities. Asteroid mining another, although this maybe just around the corner. All are theoretically possible, but all [other then asteroid mining] still a fair way off as yet. Edited April 21, 2018 by beecee
Moontanman Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 2 hours ago, beecee said: I,m an optimist Moontanman...truly! I certainly am of the opinion that avoiding any catastrophic astronomical event, and our own Earthly follies, and given the time, we should be able to achieve most of what is allowed for by the laws of physics and GR. That includes possible warp travel by manipulating spacetime. JPL also has this a a future production means, but they still realize that it is probably a millenium off as yet, if it is at all possible to achieve...Dyson spheres, space elevators, etc are also futuristic human dreams and possibilities. Asteroid mining another, although this maybe just around the corner. All are theoretically possible, but all [other then asteroid mining] still a fair way off as yet. I have my doubts about warp drive, if it is possible then huge multi star civilizations are quite probable and yet we see no trace of them. O'Nell type habitats are not just possible they are quite probable given time. It is also true that with current technology we could colonise the entire galaxy in a few million years, all that is needed IMHO is the first manufacturing facility in space once it gets started, barring some natural catastrophe, we will be able to build O'Nell type habitats, the cylinders joined at the ends to form a huge bucky ball like structure is one of the things Isaac Arthur surprised me with. I have always thought of a torus type structure but the materials are already in space, we can already access space can assembly lines of space habitats be the natural course of the evolution of our civilization? In my mind the only obstacle to this future is money, we spend so little on space and so much on the military I wonder if militarization of space will be the catalyst for living in space. I once read that if we spent the money we spend on the military in space we, as a nation mind you, could already occupy the inner solar system and be planning the utilization of the kuiper belt and oort cloud. That is just with the money the US spends on trying to do what occupying space would do by default. The military always wants to occupy the high ground, hard to get any higher and large boulders traveling at orbital velocity make Nuclear weapons look like firecrackers. It would be sad if that is why we eventually occupy space but the military has been indirectly the cause of a great deal of what we take for granted in technology today. O'Neal type colonies may be at least part of the solution to the fermi paradox as well...
Recommended Posts