Gravity (split from An observer's local clock...)

[Awkward_Pause]

Super Nerd, 

This is my first time on this site.  I'm probably commenting in the wrong spot, but you sound like you might be able to reality-test a thought that I just had to a question I ask myself 30 years ago.  But first, some quick prefaces:

A space traveler departing Earth and then nearing the speed of light will have a slower clock than us remaining on Earth.  When the traveler gets back home, they will in effect have shot themselves forward in time.  Or, that space traveler could travel at the speed of a Space Shuttle and approach a Black Hole.  The gravity will be so strong it will produce the same time-altering effects. 

Now, the question I asked 30 years ago of myself:  "What the hell is Gravity?"  We seem to know everything about it except exactly what it is.  

This thought hit me like a lightening bolt just now.  If extreme velocities and extreme gravity produce the exact same effects on Matter/Time, could Gravity be DIRECTLY linked to Velocity, such as Electricity and Magnetism (Electromagnitism)?  Or possibly more bizarre.... Could Gravity literally be Velocity?  Are they possibly the exact same thing?  Gravity is a force.  I've never heard anyone refer to Velocity as a force.  So that's not computing for me that they could be the exact same thing.  If so, we need to start looking at velocity not as just a result of a force acting on matter, but possibly also a force in-and-of itself.  

When you have a massive body like Earth, are all those electrons, moving near the speed of light in relatively close proximity to each other (i.e. Density) creating the gravitational force?  Like the magnets causing electricity & vice versa.  Don't ask me how they are doing it.  That's why I came to you.  I'm not a Theoretical Physicist, I'm an Investment Banker who has a conceptual passion for Theoretical Physics that is linked to my "Religious" beliefs.  I'm not a Christian anymore.  I think I'm trying to replace Jesus with Physics if that makes any sense.  If nothing else I'm having fun with the mental stimulation!    

Picture a universe with just Earth and all the other matter in the universe is a cloud of dust particles that are evenly spread apart (i.e. negate all other sources of gravity so you can focus on just Earth as the only meaningful gravity producer in the Universe.  

Are the velocities of electrons somehow causing gravitational forces which are demanding ALL other electrons in the universe to reunite at the location most dense (Earth)?  Is Gravity a continuously failing attempt for the reunification off all electrons to the same spot, maybe because at those incredible speeds a reunification would be the... (forgot what it's called...) the most efficient state under such conditions?  Think "The Universe is lazy."  Perhaps the least effort at such speeds is to remove the 3-Spacial Dimensions... Removing the dimensions would be to eliminate all "distances," would it not?  Would the perpetual attempt to achieve such an efficient consolidated state be the foundation for my brand new Theory: "Grand Electron Unification as an Explanation of Gravity?"

Or, should I drive back to the Pot Dispensary?  Joking, I'm very sober these days.  

I'd love to hear your thoughts, or anyone else reading this.  

 

[beecee]

4 hours ago, Awkward_Pause said:

Super Nerd, 

This is my first time on this site.  I'm probably commenting in the wrong spot, but you sound like you might be able to reality-test a thought that I just had to a question I ask myself 30 years ago.  But first, some quick prefaces:

A space traveler departing Earth and then nearing the speed of light will have a slower clock than us remaining on Earth.  When the traveler gets back home, they will in effect have shot themselves forward in time.  Or, that space traveler could travel at the speed of a Space Shuttle and approach a Black Hole.  The gravity will be so strong it will produce the same time-altering effects. 

Now, the question I asked 30 years ago of myself:  "What the hell is Gravity?"  We seem to know everything about it except exactly what it is.  

This thought hit me like a lightening bolt just now.  If extreme velocities and extreme gravity produce the exact same effects on Matter/Time, could Gravity be DIRECTLY linked to Velocity, such as Electricity and Magnetism (Electromagnitism)?  Or possibly more bizarre.... Could Gravity literally be Velocity?  Are they possibly the exact same thing?  Gravity is a force.  I've never heard anyone refer to Velocity as a force.  So that's not computing for me that they could be the exact same thing.  If so, we need to start looking at velocity not as just a result of a force acting on matter, but possibly also a force in-and-of itself.  

When you have a massive body like Earth, are all those electrons, moving near the speed of light in relatively close proximity to each other (i.e. Density) creating the gravitational force?  Like the magnets causing electricity & vice versa.  Don't ask me how they are doing it.  That's why I came to you.  I'm not a Theoretical Physicist, I'm an Investment Banker who has a conceptual passion for Theoretical Physics that is linked to my "Religious" beliefs.  I'm not a Christian anymore.  I think I'm trying to replace Jesus with Physics if that makes any sense.  If nothing else I'm having fun with the mental stimulation!    

Picture a universe with just Earth and all the other matter in the universe is a cloud of dust particles that are evenly spread apart (i.e. negate all other sources of gravity so you can focus on just Earth as the only meaningful gravity producer in the Universe.  

Are the velocities of electrons somehow causing gravitational forces which are demanding ALL other electrons in the universe to reunite at the location most dense (Earth)?  Is Gravity a continuously failing attempt for the reunification off all electrons to the same spot, maybe because at those incredible speeds a reunification would be the... (forgot what it's called...) the most efficient state under such conditions?  Think "The Universe is lazy."  Perhaps the least effort at such speeds is to remove the 3-Spacial Dimensions... Removing the dimensions would be to eliminate all "distances," would it not?  Would the perpetual attempt to achieve such an efficient consolidated state be the foundation for my brand new Theory: "Grand Electron Unification as an Explanation of Gravity?"

Or, should I drive back to the Pot Dispensary?  Joking, I'm very sober these days.  

I'd love to hear your thoughts, or anyone else reading this.  

 

I could quote the generally held definition of what is gravity and how it is defined in Newton's and Einstein's universe....or show many videos explaining gravity as the attraction between masses or as exhibiting itself in the curvature/warping of spacetime. But I sense you want something deeper then that.

Let me supply my favourite video by one of the greatest physicists of the 20th century which I believe may answer what you are after....It's only 7.5 minutes long..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8

 

[Strange]

7 hours ago, Awkward_Pause said:

Now, the question I asked 30 years ago of myself:  "What the hell is Gravity?" 

It is one the ways that we perceive the curvature of space-time in the presence of mass.

As an analogy, imagine two people walking forwards, side by side, on a flat plane. Their paths will remain parallel over time. In fact, we can consider the direction they are walking as the "time" dimension (they are moving steadily into the future) and the distance between them as a space dimension.

On the the flat plane, the distance between them doesn't change over time. Now put them on the surface of the Earth and have them both walk towards the North Pole. As they move forwards (in time) they get closer together. No force is acting on them, it is just a consequence of the curved geometry they are travelling in. You can consider them falling towards one another because of the gravity of the curved space-time they are in.

More here: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/einstein/einstein.html

[michel123456]

On 4/29/2018 at 7:37 AM, beecee said:

Now, the question I asked 30 years ago of myself:  "What the hell is Gravity?"

Welcome to the club.

On 4/29/2018 at 7:37 AM, beecee said:

We seem to know everything about it except exactly what it is.  

This thought hit me like a lightening bolt just now.  If extreme velocities and extreme gravity produce the exact same effects on Matter/Time, could Gravity be DIRECTLY linked to Velocity, such as Electricity and Magnetism (Electromagnitism)?  Or possibly more bizarre.... Could Gravity literally be Velocity?

Not velocity. What you mean is called acceleration.

[beecee]

23 minutes ago, michel123456 said:

Welcome to the club.

Not velocity. What you mean is called acceleration.

Hiya Mick......What you have attributed to me saying/typing is actually what Awkward_Pause  in the OP said.  

[michel123456]

9 hours ago, beecee said:

Hiya Mick......What you have attributed to me saying/typing is actually what Awkward_Pause  in the OP said.  

Oops sorry. i used the right click "quote this" from your reply instead of doing it from the original post.

[Janus]

On 4/28/2018 at 5:15 PM, Awkward_Pause said:

Super Nerd, 

 

A space traveler departing Earth and then nearing the speed of light will have a slower clock than us remaining on Earth.  When the traveler gets back home, they will in effect have shot themselves forward in time.  Or, that space traveler could travel at the speed of a Space Shuttle and approach a Black Hole.  The gravity will be so strong it will produce the same time-altering effects. 

Now, the question I asked 30 years ago of myself:  "What the hell is Gravity?"  We seem to know everything about it except exactly what it is.  

This thought hit me like a lightening bolt just now.  If extreme velocities and extreme gravity produce the exact same effects on Matter/Time, could Gravity be DIRECTLY linked to Velocity, such as Electricity and Magnetism (Electromagnitism)?  Or possibly more bizarre.... Could Gravity literally be Velocity?  Are they possibly the exact same thing?  Gravity is a force.  I've never heard anyone refer to Velocity as a force.  So that's not computing for me that they could be the exact same thing.  If so, we need to start looking at velocity not as just a result of a force acting on matter, but possibly also a force in-and-of itself.  

 

Except the effects of velocity are not the same as the effects of gravity.  If you are in a spaceship traveling at a near c velocity with respect to me, I will measure your clock as running slow.  You, however, will measure my clock as being the one running slow.

If instead you are near a black hole at rest with respect to me, and I am further away, I again will measure your clock as running slow, but this time you will measure my clock as running faster than yours.      With a velocity difference, we will not agree as to who's clock runs slow. With a difference in gravitational potential, we will.

 

[beecee]

11 hours ago, michel123456 said:

Oops sorry. i used the right click "quote this" from your reply instead of doing it from the original post.

No probs! I've done it myself!!

[Awkward_Pause]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:40 PM, Janus said:

Except the effects of velocity are not the same as the effects of gravity.  If you are in a spaceship traveling at a near c velocity with respect to me, I will measure your clock as running slow.  You, however, will measure my clock as being the one running slow.

If instead you are near a black hole at rest with respect to me, and I am further away, I again will measure your clock as running slow, but this time you will measure my clock as running faster than yours.      With a velocity difference, we will not agree as to who's clock runs slow. With a difference in gravitational potential, we will.

 

Thanks, I did not know there was a difference in the effects of velocity and gravity.  That makes sense.   Dan Circa 5-17-1018.