The Slick Sales Pitch of Trump

[Airbrush]

Recently the favorability of Trump has risen.  Trump's success can partly be attributed to a large number of Americans that can be enamored, and therefore conned willingly, by a good, SLICK, sales pitch.  Many Americans don't see his mannerisms as obnoxious.  They are attracted to that brash, combative style, a "street fighter" who fights back.  SALES is a major part of the American economy.  There are many people in sales.  Their commissions depend on how good they are at pushing their product on someone.  A good salesman can sell ice cubes to the Eskimos.  Many salespersons must admire an expert salesman.  People really like to hear an upbeat, brash, carnival barker who is clever enough to keep repeating his pitch, just in case someone wasn't listening carefully.  Therefore he successfully leads people into his delusions like some kind of Jim Jones.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Airbrush

[Phi for All]

I can't admire tactics that pervert capitalism in this extreme way. I don't think being "ruthless" is a good quality in business. I think ruthless people have portrayed it as a necessary ingredient in modern business, but it's really all the negative aspects we all complain about wrt modern practices. The decoupling of middle class wages from productivity was caused by these extremists. The mortgage crises, the worst of the pollution, the abuse of consumer protections, all the ripoffs and scams are run by businessmen like Trump who consider themselves effective because they're ruthless. They crave admiration because without it, these are the types of carpetbaggers communities used to tar, feather, and run out of town tied to a rail.

22 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

Trump's success can partly be attributed to a large number of Americans that can be enamored, and therefore conned willingly, by a good, SLICK, sales pitch.

Virtually every US news outlet is aimed at profit, and Trump makes them money whether you like him or hate him (if he's like Howard Stern, the folks who hate him spend more time reading/watching/listening about him than those who like him). I don't think Trump is nearly as popular as you think, but he's sensational, entertaining, and he gets more air time than anything else in the world because ignorant, powerful, and ruthless are a compelling combo to many Americans.

[swansont]

34 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

Recently the favorability of Trump has risen. 

Citation needed.

His favorability has been around 40-41% for months, and these polls typically have statistical uncertainties of a few percent. Plus, some polls have a poorer track record because of biases that are not removed.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

[iNow]

He's been trending upward in favorability since roughly November according to the 538 link. Also, Dems are not doing as well in polls against "general republican candidate" as they were a few weeks ago according to polls cited on the Sunday shows. That said, Trump does seem to be at his ceiling at the ~40% mark.

 

[Ten oz]

Conservative have a robust media infastructure in place that constantly praises Trump and assails his opponents. It muddies the waters. FoxNews, conservative talk radio, conservative websites, and etc are unrelenting. In my opinion there is not an opposite group pushing back. Rather there are groups trying their best to present reality best they can. The result is media overall erroring towards what's said about truth rather than what's true. I don't think Trump is pitching anything special. Rather I think the integrity of his supporters is simply so low that it doesn't matter what he does or says. 

 

[Phi for All]

48 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

FoxNews, conservative talk radio, conservative websites, and etc are unrelenting.

Rabid racism feeds off these sources, and the GOP uses them to deter organizations trying to help minorities. The lynching of ACORN was done in this same style, with some misinterpreted information coupled with relentless repetition of the misinformation. Trump is a master at deceiving his base while the rest of us goggle at his lies and ignorance. How many times is he going to be allowed to repeat that we're giving Iran billions of dollars, without some reporter from FOX pointing out that it was Iran's money we seized before, and are now giving back? The slick sales pitch of Trump is made possible by the media who lets him shock rather than inform.

[Ten oz]

8 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Trump is a master at deceiving his base while the rest of us goggle at his lies and ignorance.

He isn't deceiving his base. They don't care how much he lies. I don't think they even care if their own lives are improved appreciably by his policies. Many simply enjoy watching liberals, blacks, immigrants, and whomever they object to suffer. It is grievance Politics at it's ugliest. 

Quote

 

Most Republicans who think President Donald Trump is loose with the truth still approve of the job he's doing as president, a new NBC News|SurveyMonkey online poll shows.

https://www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna870521?amp_js_v=a1&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQGCAEYASgB#amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fpolitics-news%2Fpoll-republicans-who-think-trump-untruthful-still-approve-him-n870521

 

 

[John Cuthber]

I'm not sure if it's Trump being a good salesman or the media bigging him up and running down the opposition.

If all the newspapers and TV say you are great then you are going to do well even if you are as bad as Trump is known to be.

[CharonY]

Although it is about US politics, I will mention that sales pitches are used everywhere. There is a reason why sales guys make more money than the tech staff.  That being said, I am kind of worried about the impact of folks like Trump on other politicians. By creating a fact-free environment it is possible to make outrageous claims. While those may have impacted the image of politicians in former times, it does not seem to be the case anymore. In fact, if anything it does seem to rally their base instead.

[iNow]

On 5/7/2018 at 11:05 AM, swansont said:

Citation needed.

Since Airbrush doesn't seem to be stepping up here, I will: 

http://news.gallup.com/poll/234020/trump-job-approval-best-year.aspx

[swansont]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Since Airbrush doesn't seem to be stepping up here, I will: 

http://news.gallup.com/poll/234020/trump-job-approval-best-year.aspx

Yes, that's what I saw. Looks pretty flat to me.

[Phi for All]

It's probably necessary to define "good salesman" at some point. Is a good salesman the one with the highest dollar totals at the end of the year, or the one with the most customers who would do business with him/her again? 

I think the image of a ruthless businessman is at odds with the image of a good salesman. Do you revere the salesperson who tricked you to get your money and sold you a lemon? Why not, he was just being ruthless the way Trump would have? 

Or does a good salesman try to make sure the deal is good for everyone, and not just himself? That's how I learned it, but that's not what extremist capitalists practice.

[CharonY]

2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

It's probably necessary to define "good salesman" at some point. Is a good salesman the one with the highest dollar totals at the end of the year, or the one with the most customers who would do business with him/her again? 

I think the image of a ruthless businessman is at odds with the image of a good salesman. Do you revere the salesperson who tricked you to get your money and sold you a lemon? Why not, he was just being ruthless the way Trump would have? 

Or does a good salesman try to make sure the deal is good for everyone, and not just himself? That's how I learned it, but that's not what extremist capitalists practice.

I think a good salesman establishes a great relationship maximizing total yield rather than short-term benefit. A fantastic salesman can eke out a tad more for him/herself while still making you believe that it was to your benefit. Having a reputation as being ruthless does not really help in either scenario. That only works if you have something that you can leverage. And that seems to be the totality of Trump's playbook.

[iNow]

We recently implemented a program where 20% of the annual compensation of our sales team is tied to the renewal rate of the subscriptions they sell. It was designed to address exactly the problem being described above. Don’t oversell stuff they don’t need. Don’t lie. Don’t be evil (ala Google)

Long term relationships pay the bills. 

[Velocity_Boy]

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

Recently the favorability of Trump has risen.  Trump's success can partly be attributed to a large number of Americans that can be enamored, and therefore conned willingly, by a good, SLICK, sales pitch.  Many Americans don't see his mannerisms as obnoxious.  They are attracted to that brash, combative style, a "street fighter" who fights back.  SALES is a major part of the American economy.  There are many people in sales.  Their commissions depend on how good they are at pushing their product on someone.  A good salesman can sell ice cubes to the Eskimos.  Many salespersons must admire an expert salesman.  People really like to hear an upbeat, brash, carnival barker who is clever enough to keep repeating his pitch, just in case someone wasn't listening carefully.  Therefore he successfully leads people into his delusions like some kind of Jim Jones.

All too true.

But anybody who cannot see through Trump's duplicity and crass, used car salesman demeanor and sincerity level is either hopelessly biased towards him already, or is so politically obtuse that they could serve as a poster child for a Grass Roots lobby to require competency and IQ tests for voters.

They say a country gets the leaders it deserves.

If that maxim is indeed true, than we need to take one good long look in the mirror.

[swansont]

14 hours ago, Velocity_Boy said:

All too true.

But anybody who cannot see through Trump's duplicity and crass, used car salesman demeanor and sincerity level is either hopelessly biased towards him already, or is so politically obtuse that they could serve as a poster child for a Grass Roots lobby to require competency and IQ tests for voters.

They say a country gets the leaders it deserves.

If that maxim is indeed true, than we need to take one good long look in the mirror.

We also need to address the fact that not everyone who wanted (and was entitled) to vote was able to, and that Russia hacked our elections. 

[Phi for All]

18 hours ago, iNow said:

Long term relationships pay the bills. 

And I think most people intuit that this is the right way to operate, the human way. Yet too many idolize the razzle-dazzle stories of business wolves devouring their competitors, or thrashing them soundly as if it were a rugby match instead of people's livelihoods.

Americans are weird. We know it was wrong for Wells Fargo to rip off its own customers the way they did, but it's not wrong enough to put the CEO in jail. I keep waiting for some thief to cite the Wells Fargo defense, where you pay back a portion of what you stole and agree to step down and go steal somewhere else.

[Ten oz]

16 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Americans are weird. We know it was wrong for Wells Fargo to rip off its own customers the way they did, but it's not wrong enough to put the CEO in jail. I keep waiting for some thief to cite the Wells Fargo defense, where you pay back a portion of what you stole and agree to step down and go steal somewhere else.

If you aren't cheating you aren't trying, no body gets rich on their own money, it isn't cheating if you don't get caught, nobody gets rich working for someone else, nobody gets rich without burying a few bodies, laws are made for poor people, winners don't ask for permission, and etc are all iterations of the same basic American concept that immoral behavior is loosely justified provided  the result is success. Additionally society thinks people who find loopholes to circumvent the law are brilliant. Doing what is right for the sake of what's right isn't viewed as an intellectual attribute. A stupid person can be moral. Only a smart person worthy of admiration can be rich. 

[Phi for All]

5 hours ago, Ten oz said:

If you aren't cheating you aren't trying, no body gets rich on their own money, it isn't cheating if you don't get caught, nobody gets rich working for someone else, nobody gets rich without burying a few bodies, laws are made for poor people, winners don't ask for permission, and etc are all iterations of the same basic American concept that immoral behavior is loosely justified provided  the result is success. Additionally society thinks people who find loopholes to circumvent the law are brilliant. Doing what is right for the sake of what's right isn't viewed as an intellectual attribute. A stupid person can be moral. Only a smart person worthy of admiration can be rich. 

This right here is the slick sales pitch Turnip uses (darn spellcheck!). Is it beyond belief that our entertainment has been aimed at painting carpetbaggers in a favorable light as well? Think of all the novels and films about the Wall Street anti-hero doing whatever it takes to rise to the top. This fits right in with the GOP platform of not giving anybody a dime unless they can pull themselves up by their own bootstraps (and then they don't really need the dime, unless they're white). This narrative seems responsible for changing the American Dream of being prosperous with a home, two cars, two kids, and some pets, to one where you have to have more than others if you want to be successful, and in that pursuit morals will only slow you down.

[Raider5678]

I'm gonna get hammered for saying this:

 

But what are you trying to discuss? I could have sworn rants like this were considered against the rules. There's not a single question in the OP.

It's all statements, not backed up by sources, and it's a rant. There's nothing to discuss.

 

And then you guys wonder why I think you're biased......

 

[iNow]

I don't believe the OP is representative of the median or average poster to this thread or even this site.

That said, there was a clear assertion made: Trump's success can partly be attributed to a large number of Americans that can be enamored, and therefore conned willingly, by a good, SLICK, sales pitch. 

Most posts have been pushing back on that claim.

Then, as with most discussions in Politics and Religion, the thread took a decidedly biological turn and evolved.

[Raider5678]

13 minutes ago, iNow said:

I don't believe the OP is representative of the median or average poster to this thread or even this site.

 

Neither do I, but the simple fact that he wasn't called out on this being a rant and not being a discussion at all tells a story on it's own.

13 minutes ago, iNow said:

Trump's success can partly be attributed to a large number of Americans that can be enamored, and therefore conned willingly, by a good, SLICK, sales pitch. 

Fine.

Let's discuss this.

I'd say if it WAS increasing, #1 reason is that the average American receives $1,000 dollars from income tax cuts.

Yes, I know. Nancy Pelosi says it's just pocket crumbs. But then, she's worth $40,000,000, and us down here making 10-12k a year raising a family of four..... $1,000 helps quite a bit(around $400 for us, since we make less than the median 59k which is where the $1,000 figure comes from). 

Pocket crumbs or not, it's extremely helpful. For $400 you can change the tires on your car, buy two months worth of groceries and household supplies, put it in a savings account, etc.

 

And I'm not discussing whether the tax cuts are good or not. Don't even go there.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Raider5678

[koti]

11 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Neither do I, but the simple fact that he wasn't called out on this being a rant and not being a discussion at all tells a story on it's own.

Well, the good thing is that you’re not aiming to be a moderator on this forum

[Raider5678]

Just now, koti said:

Well, the good thing is that you’re not aiming to be a moderator on this forum

If I was, I'd enforce the rules on this particular thread.

At the very minimum put in a question.

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

People really like to hear an upbeat, brash, carnival barker who is clever enough to keep repeating his pitch, just in case someone wasn't listening carefully.

No. They don't. It's annoying.

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

Trump's success can partly be attributed to a large number of Americans that can be enamored, and therefore conned willingly, by a good, SLICK, sales pitch. 

Correction, large number of Americans who can be bought.

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

Many Americans don't see his mannerisms as obnoxious. 

Prove it.

 

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

Many salespersons must admire an expert salesman. 

 

Prove it.

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

Therefore he successfully leads people into his delusions like some kind of Jim Jones.

Kind of like the parties have successfully done wouldn't you say?

On 5/7/2018 at 11:24 AM, Airbrush said:

Recently the favorability of Trump has risen.

I can see why.

On 5/7/2018 at 6:34 PM, CharonY said:

By creating a fact-free environment it is possible to make outrageous claims.

Trust me. Trump didn't start this.

On 5/7/2018 at 12:51 PM, Ten oz said:

Conservative have a robust media infastructure in place that constantly praises Trump and assails his opponents.

Fox News as compared to CBS, ABC, New York Times, Washington Post, etc.

I'm astounded. It must be because the media all praises Trump. Because we all know Republicans trust the media.

[iNow]

You're far too emotional. I might return to this later, but you bore me when you are like this and I'm not terribly interested in continuing.