Most Overrated Novels of All-time?

[CharonY]

14 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

The first 50 pages expose the history and politics of Herbert's universe like an intro level course lecture given by a professor in a monotone. In that way, Herbert is like a mortgage lender who wants the interest paid before you start in on the principal.

Same could be said about Asimov. Amazing ideas but boring prose. 

[nevim]

I lived in Prague for 7 years and visited Kafka’s house but never actually read any of his work. Very recently, I downloaded A Hunger Artist and have to say I was a bit disappointed by it.

If anyone can recommend another title for me to try, please do.

[Phi for All]

28 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Same could be said about Asimov. Amazing ideas but boring prose. 

Exactly. I prefer the more modern style where information is exposed as needed, and assumes the reader is smart enough to figure out the jigsaw without the writer doing all the edge pieces.

[hypervalent_iodine]

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

The first 50 pages expose the history and politics of Herbert's universe like an intro level course lecture given by a professor in a monotone. In that way, Herbert is like a mortgage lender who wants the interest paid before you start in on the principal.

I found it to not be so bad in audio book form. Same with a lot of Tolkien’s more involved books. There is a version of Children of Hurin narrated by the late, great Christopher Lee that I found to be very good, but I can’t imagine finding it so engaging without his reading it. 

[CharonY]

2 minutes ago, hypervalent_iodine said:

I found it to not be so bad in audio book form. Same with a lot of Tolkien’s more involved books. There is a version of Children of Hurin narrated by the late, great Christopher Lee that I found to be very good, but I can’t imagine finding it so engaging without his reading it. 

Strangely, I have the opposite tendency. I dislike audiobooks because the pace is far too slow for my liking (even with great voices, such as Lee's). I would find Asimov, Herbert etc. far more palatable if I can read through it. With Tolkien I did enjoy the writing (though I was a fan of epics around the time I read it). 

[hypervalent_iodine]

6 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Strangely, I have the opposite tendency. I dislike audiobooks because the pace is far too slow for my liking (even with great voices, such as Lee's). I would find Asimov, Herbert etc. far more palatable if I can read through it. With Tolkien I did enjoy the writing (though I was a fan of epics around the time I read it). 

 

It’s a good distraction during hours of mindless experiments for me. I haven’t found the slower pace to be an issue, but that’s probably personal taste.

[Phi for All]

29 minutes ago, hypervalent_iodine said:

I found it to not be so bad in audio book form. Same with a lot of Tolkien’s more involved books. There is a version of Children of Hurin narrated by the late, great Christopher Lee that I found to be very good, but I can’t imagine finding it so engaging without his reading it. 

Audio may be the best method for delivering dry exposition in the manner of a lecturer. Like a 101 course, you sit ready to take notes on the parts that seem important.

Herbert didn't try to cover it up with frills the way some writers do, and he didn't start from the beginning of time the way Michener does, so I have to give him some credit for that honesty. He knew he was describing a complicated backstory, and he just expected us to grab our Wellies and slog through. And I enjoyed Dune after the first 50 pages, and would say it was worth the slog. 

29 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Strangely, I have the opposite tendency. I dislike audiobooks because the pace is far too slow for my liking (even with great voices, such as Lee's).

I was sooooo happy several years ago when I took a contract that had me commuting longer, which seemed to justify getting audiobooks from the library and listening to them on the drive. I was sooooo bummed out when I discovered listening is NOTHING like reading for me. I don't know what it is, maybe the distraction of driving, or the narrator's need for enunciation that slows it all down so I end up skipping around inside my head, but after a few chapters I realize I need to rewind and listen again, having missed some important bit that's left me confused. 

[CharonY]

18 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Audio may be the best method for delivering dry exposition in the manner of a lecturer. Like a 101 course, you sit ready to take notes on the parts that seem important.

Although it seems to be weird coming from someone who delivers lectures, I always found these courses fairly useless for myself. As a student I mostly used the lecture to inform myself on sources to read, which helped my much more to get a proper understanding of a subject. I do think that lectures are most effective if you already read up, and then can use the lecture to clarify things. But I have never managed to get it to work like this in these large undergrad courses. Of course I do hope that the lectures are not a complete waste of time, but in all honesty I am not sure.

Once we get to smaller graduate courses I try to ditch lectures as much as possible (or only as supplemental element).

18 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I was sooooo happy several years ago when I took a contract that had me commuting longer, which seemed to justify getting audiobooks from the library and listening to them on the drive. I was sooooo bummed out when I discovered listening is NOTHING like reading for me. I don't know what it is, maybe the distraction of driving, or the narrator's need for enunciation that slows it all down so I end up skipping around inside my head, but after a few chapters I realize I need to rewind and listen again, having missed some important bit that's left me confused. 

I tried to get into audiobooks a while ago, but I realized that the pace made me lose focus and I would start thinking about other things. I read fairly fast and only slow down for complicated matters (mostly non-fiction) and I found it quite at odds with the steady, but slow pacing of reading aloud.

Edited May 8, 2018 by CharonY

[iNow]

Pro tip: Audible audiobooks allow you to speed up the playback (much like most podcast players)

[CharonY]

I suspect that if I speed it up to my liking it will sound like read by Mickey Mouse.

[iNow]

You get used to it. Lol. I listen at about 1.8 normal speed. My wife hates it so I often need to use the headphones, but I find it far more aligned w my own personal processing speed.  

[Velocity_Boy]

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I think we're talking about literature we don't like, for whatever reason.

Hmm..what I had in mind was a bit more toward hearing from you guys about particular novels you've read that were alleged literary classics, or just had a glowing and impressive critical and popular reputation....but alas, after you read it you couldn't for the life of you understand what all the hoopla was about. In other words....you were left to wonder, wtf?

Thus far we were doing novels...which are of course fiction. We could now morph this thread into discussing nonfiction books. Cone to think of it...this might be more befitting a science forum?

So let's go!

Nonfiction books that enjoyed splendid reps but left you muttering, WTF?

Thanks.

12 hours ago, zapatos said:

Like most things, quality seems to be in the eye of the beholder. I loved Moby Dick and all things Hemingway.

I twice tried to battle my way through Crime and Punishment. Mostly felt like punishment to me.

I would sooner chew tin foil while shaving my head with a cheese grater than read Oliver Twist again.

For the life of me I cannot understand the fervor around Harry Potter.

Yeah....tell me about it! To me, Dickens had always been way too wordy and just too much of a chore to read. What's the point of recreational reading if you're not enjoying it and feel like throwing the book across the room once ever twenty pages or so? Dickens and his two page long sentences. I'll leave him to his fans and the anglophiles. I actually initially typed "anything by Dickens" in my OP for this thread! But erased it when I figured it was too harsh, and besides, who am I to denigrate van author's entire opus?

[Velocity_Boy]

17 hours ago, Prometheus said:

I agreed with this one: still an OK book, just overrated.

 

The one and half books i read of Hemingway's. Can't remember the titles or stories; one occurred somewhere in the Florida Keys. The only thing i really remember is that every other sentence read like 'look at me, how good am I at writing, am I the best or what...'

 

Still haven't read it but it's on my list. Hope it doesn't disappoint.

 

It's a good book: the story of Jesus in particular is fantastic. But yeah, fans of the book are a little over zealous and rate it a bit too much.

 

 

A recent one that surprised me, though not a classic, was It by Stephen King: was so bored by it couldn't bring myself to finish. Normally like his stories. (Do any of his novels pass as classics? The Shining?)

Mmm...if one were allowed to narrow it down a bit from the vast pantheon of Classic Literature and discuss the arguable classics Horror and Fantasy....I am of the opinion that SK's...IT.....The Shining....Tommyknockers....The Stand...and Thinner (my personal fave of his) could all be called Classics.

14 hours ago, zapatos said:

Like most things, quality seems to be in the eye of the beholder. I loved Moby Dick and all things Hemingway.

I twice tried to battle my way through Crime and Punishment. Mostly felt like punishment to me.

I would sooner chew tin foil while shaving my head with a cheese grater than read Oliver Twist again.

For the life of me I cannot understand the fervor around Harry Potter.

Thank God for your final comment above! I was afeared I might be the only poor bastard in the world who could not get into HP. It was like some huge glaring and even worrisome cognitive disconnect with me. I was totally flummoxed and without a clue as to what could be found compelling or just plain enjoyable about the whole Hogwarts thing. Somebody would, for example, be wearing a Hogwarts or Dumbledore shirt and I'd vadk them what the hell that was... and they'd blook at me adcif I'd just grown a second head.

The only comparable experience that comes to mind...where I just could. Not. Understand. The hoopla, was with that movie Lost In Translation. That movie, indeed, still Garner's the #1 slot on my all time WTF movie list.

8 hours ago, nevim said:

I lived in Prague for 7 years and visited Kafka’s house but never actually read any of his work. Very recently, I downloaded A Hunger Artist and have to say I was a bit disappointed by it.

If anyone can recommend another title for me to try, please do.

A title in what genre? What sort of fiction do you enjoy? Maybe you could name a few favorites? Let me know and I'll offer up a couple titles.

 

14 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I think this is a case of littery spoilers and why they are so-called, it creates an expectation (a good read) which in turn sets up a bias "I'll be the judge of that", so instead of reading, and enjoying, the book for its yarn, one reads it solely to critique, almost determined not to enjoy it.

But in the end, it comes down to this, we all enjoy differently 

Hmm..perhaps a kernel of truth there, insofar as going into a highly lauded novel with a covert attempt to discern reasons for said lavish praise. But I for one truly rarely do this. Rather...I am looking forward to enjoying a good story and I often use past reviews to help me decide where to begin reading. If I were a professional literary critic I might be more apt to jump into a highly acclaimed novel with my red pen in hand. But believe me, I'd much rather enjoy a book I just spent twenty bucks on and thus jump on the bandwagon praising bit than to be disappointed and have another offering for my Overrated list.

[nevim]

2 hours ago, Velocity_Boy said:

 

A title in what genre? What sort of fiction do you enjoy? Maybe you could name a few favorites? Let me know and I'll offer up a couple

Hi Velocity Boy

I was hoping for a suggestion on something by Franz Kafka as the short story I read I didn’t think much of. 

Have to agree with Harry Potter comments. Long ago I attempted the first but abandoned it after a couple of chapters.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by nevim
Spelling mistake of author

[Endy0816]

Try the 'The Metamorphosis'. Weird yet thought provoking.

[nevim]

OK, thanks!

[pzkpfw]

I'd read some Greg Bear I really liked, so was keen to try Eon, which I think is considered a classic. Finding it very hard to slog through the last few chapters. Have not picked it up in a Month.

Similarly, liked a lot of Robert A. Heinlein, but never finished Stranger in a strange land. May try again one day.

The Frank Herbert "classic" Dune, has already been mentioned. I thought it started well, then I got bored of all the "the prophecy said someone would do this, then he did that". Did finish it, but was never tempted by the sequels.

(

Now that I think of it, never got far into Clockwork Orange, Catch-22, nor The World According to Garp. All considered (more or less) classics at the time I tried them.

)

Edited May 9, 2018 by pzkpfw

[hypervalent_iodine]

2 hours ago, pzkpfw said:

I'd read some Greg Bear I really liked, so was keen to try Eon, which I think is considered a classic. Finding it very hard to slog through the last few chapters. Have not picked it up in a Month.

Similarly, liked a lot of Robert A. Heinlein, but never finished Stranger in a strange land. May try again one day.

The Frank Herbert "classic" Dune, has already been mentioned. I thought it started well, then I got bored of all the "the prophecy said someone would do this, then he did that". Did finish it, but was never tempted by the sequels.

(

Now that I think of it, never got far into Clockwork Orange, Catch-22, nor The World According to Garp. All considered (more or less) classics at the time I tried them.

)

 

Clockwork and Catch-22 do take some getting used to. I found once I was comfortable with the pace and jargon, I could meet them on their level and enjoy it. Admittedly, you do have to work for it, and they are definitely not books I'd be up to re-reading unless I had a lot of spare time and mental energy. 

J Irving is an interesting author. I was lent one of his books by a history teacher I had once in high school, and have since read all but one. I would have to agree that Garp is not his best. I suppose that makes it overrated. My favourite is A Prayer for Owen Meany, closely followed by Cider House Rules and Hotel New Hampshire. After a few of his books, they do start to blend. He really takes 'talk about what you know' to its absolute zenith, and only focuses his characters around very few central elements. There's always some combination of wrestling, Vienna, Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine, some sort of bizarre family dynamic, and weird sexual stuff. Garp was one of the last one of his I read, and I found it was wearing a little thin on me by that point. 

[Endy0816]

I'm pretty OCD about finshing a book, but 'Anna Karenina' managed to bore me to the point that I actually gave up :/

[Sensei]

I am wondering why nobody mentioned "Ulysses" James Joyce.. Everybody liked it.. ?

 

[hypervalent_iodine]

15 minutes ago, Sensei said:

I am wondering why nobody mentioned "Ulysses" James Joyce.. Everybody liked it.. ?

 

 

CharonY mentions it on the previous page in passing. Personally, I haven't read it, so can't comment. 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

I am wondering why nobody mentioned "Ulysses" James Joyce.. Everybody liked it.. ?

2

I struggled through the first 100 pages only to realise I hadn't taken any of it in, so I don't really know.

[geordief]

 

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

I am wondering why nobody mentioned "Ulysses" James Joyce.. Everybody liked it.. ?

 

Years ago now ,but I seem to remember  it was very well written and Molly had a very good soliloquy.

Where I did burn my bridges with him was Finnegan's Wake , though I may  not have been his target audience (I am not the smartest).

[MigL]

A book has to 'connect' with the reader. The novel needs to immerse the reader in its world for it to be enjoyable.
IOW it needs to be read in the right circumstances ( such as age ).

I was fortunate to read 'classics' like Animal Farm and The Catcher In The Rye when I was in high school, and they were very hard to put down.
At that point in my life Orwell's 1984 would not have had the same effect on me as Animal Farm did.

I read Moby Dick as a teenager and found it boring, but II re-read it about 15 yrs ago, when Star Trek-First Contact came out ( Jean Luc Picard quotes Moby Dick's Capt. Ahab while discussing the Borg ) and found it excellent and certainly deserving to be called 'classic'.

Tried reading the Harry Potter stuff, even bought the Blu-ray movies, but to no avail.
Still haven't read, or watched, them.

Mostly read science fiction, but I've gone from the simplistic stuff of the 30s-50s 'pulp' , to more complex, thought provoking stuff.
The only ones I've kept ( nostalgia I suppose ) are Andre Norton's works; which are by no means 'classics'.
He was actually a she, when women didn't write science fiction.
And  she had cats ( and included them in her stories ), so she couldn't be bad.

[dimreepr]

4 minutes ago, MigL said:

A book has to 'connect' with the reader. The novel needs to immerse the reader in its world for it to be enjoyable.
IOW it needs to be read in the right circumstances ( such as age ).

I was fortunate to read 'classics' like Animal Farm and The Catcher In The Rye when I was in high school, and they were very hard to put down.

 

Indeed, I read "The Catcher in the rye" as an adult and thought, he's just a whiny little bitch.