USA pulling out of Iran deal

[Raider5678]

17 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Schools don't improve because lobbyists don't want them to.  

 

I've heard some pretty disturbing theories on why that's the case.

[Phi for All]

21 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Schools don't improve because lobbyists don't want them to.  

Ooooh, new thread!

[StringJunky]

8 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Ooooh, new thread!

That's ripe for exporting.  

[StringJunky]

To everybody: Do you think it's fair that the US is lumping the other issues - like Syria - with the nuclear issue? I'm thinking they are not relevant because nuclear weapons development are a whole other ball game to the other issues and it's solely about avoiding nucler proliferation. I'm also thinking the US is making unreasonable demands on Iran and impossibly complicating the problem by tying the other issues to the nuclear accord. The regional issues are just the normal course of international events where everyone is fighting their corner regarding differences and issues that have been going on for decades, if not centuries.

Think of all the problems we have with Russia yet the US still continues with all the treaties. Lots of things are kept separate and it should be so with Iran.

When I say the 'US', you know I mean Trump.

Edited May 13, 2018 by StringJunky

[Ten oz]

11 hours ago, StringJunky said:

When I say the 'US', you know I mean Trump.

Why do you mean Trump when it is in fact the U.S. which is doing it? It is the U.S. that elected him and our Courts and Congress (other 2 branches of govt) have gone along with him regardless of corruption, Russian interference, popular vote, or whatever else creates the appearance of illegitimacy. Trump is POTUS and a more powerful than average one in terms of Congressional kowtowing and fervent right wing media propaganda. Here in the U.S. I think we have an ugly happen of ignoring our own civic responsibilities. We have been in Iraq for 15yrs now yet blame Bush rather than owning it as a nation. It is pitiful. From Trump pulling out of the Paris agreement to his tax cuts, moving the Israeli embassy, Iran, and etc I think most Americans understand that once Trump is gone regardless of who replaces him (Democrat or Republican) a lot of errors will need correction yet we continue down this road anyway just enabling Trump. We are like frat boys at midnight on a Friday night. We know only bad options lay ahead but we continue to just party. 

The Iran Deal is was supported at the U.N. and included all the major players in the world militarily and economically: China, Russia, UK, Germany, and France. By pulling out the U.S. not only is breaking commitments to Iran but the whole world community. It is telling the world that there is no point in making any long term plans with the U.S. because every new Congress and or President is an island untethered to all agreements they didn't make. Trump has done this with the Paris Agreement, NAFTA, TPP, Iran, and etc. It makes no sense. The international community needs to be able to trust that long term agreements can be reached which won't require renegotiation every 2-4yrs. 

 

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Why do you mean Trump when it is in fact the U.S. which is doing it? It is the U.S. that elected him and our Courts and Congress (other 2 branches of govt) have gone along with him regardless of corruption, Russian interference, popular vote, or whatever else creates the appearance of illegitimacy. Trump is POTUS and a more powerful than average one in terms of Congressional kowtowing and fervent right wing media propaganda. Here in the U.S. I think we have an ugly happen of ignoring our own civic responsibilities. We have been in Iraq for 15yrs now yet blame Bush rather than owning it as a nation. It is pitiful. From Trump pulling out of the Paris agreement to his tax cuts, moving the Israeli embassy, Iran, and etc I think most Americans understand that once Trump is gone regardless of who replaces him (Democrat or Republican) a lot of errors will need correction yet we continue down this road anyway just enabling Trump. We are like frat boys at midnight on a Friday night. We know only bad options lay ahead but we continue to just party. 

The Iran Deal is was supported at the U.N. and included all the major players in the world militarily and economically: China, Russia, UK, Germany, and France. By pulling out the U.S. not only is breaking commitments to Iran but the whole world community. It is telling the world that there is no point in making any long term plans with the U.S. because every new Congress and or President is an island untethered to all agreements they didn't make. Trump has done this with the Paris Agreement, NAFTA, TPP, Iran, and etc. It makes no sense. The international community needs to be able to trust that long term agreements can be reached which won't require renegotiation every 2-4yrs. 

 

I was thinking of you sensible guys here when I added that. Yes, the current international face of America is pretty ugly and untrustworthy; like a bully with amnesia that selectively forgets its commitments. If this all leads to conflict between the other signatories and the US, I'm all for it... America's being a bastard.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

If this all leads to conflict between the other signatories and the US, I'm all for it

Be careful what you wish for...

[StringJunky]

On 10/05/2018 at 4:39 PM, iNow said:

I wish. We need more differing views to reduce the echoes in our chamber

But with the inside view - you Americans - and the rest of us giving the outside we can still have an interesting conversation on analysing the problem. We aren't wedded overtly to political paricular ideologies... apart from Phi who is a closet commie.

9 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Be careful what you wish for...

This is time to stand with our back straight and facing up to it. We have to show Iran and everyone else we are trustworthy.... the long game matters here more than any short--terminism. We have to show Russia and China that we are principled and not blindly loyal to our allies when they are clearly in the wrong.

Edited May 14, 2018 by StringJunky

[dimreepr]

4 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

This is time to stand with our back straight and facing up to it. We have to show Iran and everyone else we are trustworthy....

1

That may be true, but:  

7 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

the long game matters here more than any short--terminism.

Unfortunately, the long game rarely gets a look in with democratic politics; fortunately, sometimes all we've got to do is wait.